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Comment by hiQloIQ | Hacker News Reader

No reason to believe their numbers either given the shenanigans they have engaged in.

We need to be smart and not knee jerk into feel good memes though. Local gardens and community gardens have higher resource use per acre than large farm ops. Commercial farm infrastructure is far more resilient and lasts longer while consumer gardening gear is cheap and disposable. Consumer gardening gear manufacturers factories burn tons of resources to crank out tons of low quality kit, consumers burn through piles of it. That's not sustainable either.

Plus you really want the average American dumping chemicals in community ground water to grow the biggest pumpkin in the zip code?

Americans need to find common ground on the path forward not fragment into tens of millions of little resource intensive potato farmers

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> Local gardens and community gardens have higher resource use per acre than large farm ops.

It amazes me how few people are cognisant of this very obvious and important fact.

> Plus you really want the average American dumping chemicals in community ground water to grow the biggest pumpkin in the zip code?

Just because it’s out of sight doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Industrial farming and specially animal farming is one of the most polluting industries, subsidized to produce environmental damage, population diseases and animal abuse.

The value of smaller gardens are not measured in the produce harvested but the knowledge sowed. Many are federally funded at schools, community centers, or local libraries to serve as outdoor classrooms.

That's great, but they cannot feed a nation 100% or even close for long periods of time.

They can help educate a nation on which are the healthiest foods to eat, how to prepare them, what they taste like, etc. That may allow us to more healthily feed a nation 100%, while also using fewer resources.

> The value of smaller gardens are not measured in the produce harvested but the knowledge sowed

No, it should be measured in terms of amount of input relative to the amount of output. It’s almost never the case that small farms is going to be more efficient—not only cost wise, but for the environment—than large scale farming.

> It’s almost never the case that small farms is going to be more efficient—not only cost wise, but for the environment—than large scale farming.

I can relate: Our SIL gave my wife a countertop gadget that holds six little cups into which you drop pre-packaged paper cups of seeds and soil. (You order them online.) The gadget has a grow light. You have to water the cups periodically My ux uses the gadget to grow basil and parsley, and snips off bits of leaves as needed for cooking. All-in, the crops cost probably 5-10X what we'd pay for fresh herbs at a Whole Foods or Trader Joe's, let alone at an Aldi's or H-E-B. Ah, well: Signaling love and appreciation is important ....

That's how Japan works...how horrendous ?

Japan is not a model to follow.

Been doing it the same way for centuries so, care to elaborate on what's wrong with how they farm?

Also, just because their setup isn't optimal, doesn't mean it's the cause for some ecological crisis like you seem to be implying. I live in Japan, I watch people farm every year, there is very little going on that makes me suspect there is some wide-spread ecological damage being done by people who want to grow massive pumpkins, even though, people do grow massive pumpkins.

You telling everyone that gardening is bad for the environment is interesting because I absolutely cannot imagine what is worse for the environment than the industrial scale monocrop style farming that goes on most developed countries. Like, holy shit...

People need to eat and industrial scale farming is what enables us to make enough, affordable food.

It has plenty downsides. But it’s a brilliant and truly efficient system that is being perfected by thousands of scientists and it has prevented hunger and chaos for decades now.

If you want to see real change, people would need to have way more time, be less lazy, have more money and be less demanding when it comes to variety and availability.

In other words, it’s easier to keep perfecting the system we have because it’s easier to change procedures than it is to change people.

"enough, affordable food" makes me think of all the food waste we have. I do not think that food scarcity is an issue.

Didn't say we can do away with Industrial scale farming, just that I live in a part of Japan where people grow so much of their own food, they struggle to give it away by the end of the summer. So yeah, didn't mean to imply industrial scale farming is "naughty", just that Japan is notorious for smaller farming operations and I've seen a lot of food grown successfully here at small or micro scale. I think a healthy mix of both things is important.

Look at Australia, basically no one grows any food and they're completely at the mercy of insanely inflated food prices dictated by corporations like Woolworths. At least in rural parts of Japan, a lot of people can lower their grocery costs with supplemental, home grown food. I actually have notice a bit of a rebellious culture amongst farmers here. It's interesting but for a different topic I guess.

> Been doing it the same way for centuries so, care to elaborate on what's wrong with how they farm?

You're talking about the same Japan that's had rice shortages for like two years now, right?

The rice shortages were not because of poor farming practices, this is basic knowledge now: https://eastasiaforum.org/2024/10/18/japans-rice-crisis-show.... Yes the weather was bad in 2023 for farming rice, but it could be bad anywhere in the world. Australia does plenty of industrial scal farming and there are years were certain crops are decimated.

Anyway the government dipped into the stockpiles and all is good now.

It's as if you didn't read the article - this is just the summary they give:

> Japan faced a rice shortage in the summer of 2024, exposing flaws in its food security policy. Despite declining consumption, small shocks caused market disruption. The government refused to release stockpiles, prioritising producer interests over consumer needs. This reflects political considerations, with upcoming elections influencing policy decisions. The crisis highlights the need for a more balanced approach to food security, emphasising both physical stockpiles and effective public communication. Japan must reassess its agricultural policies to ensure long-term food security and market stability.

The actual meat of the article goes in to further, damning detail.

As I wrote, Japan is not a model to follow.

> You telling everyone that gardening is bad for the environment

Quote me on that, I think you'll have a hard time finding that quote because you've pulled it out of nowhere.

Now reread your comment and wonder what else is connected to my comment, because I'm wondering too - did you mean to reply to someone else?

Commercial farm infrastructure is far more resilient and lasts longer while consumer gardening gear is cheap and disposable. Consumer gardening gear manufacturers factories burn tons of resources to crank out tons of low quality kit, consumers burn through piles of it. That's not sustainable either.

You seem to be implying that people gardening are doing a disservice to the environment because we're buying disposable gardening tools (not true). I've had plenty of gardening tools for decades, I even use tools handed down from previous generations. I bet tractor tires aren't great for the environment either?

Thanks for proving my point, I didn’t write that.

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