Programming as a cure for A.D.D.?
zackshapiro.com
zackshapiro.com
Not to be rude, but it's unclear whether the author has had an actual professional diagnosis. ADHD is one of the most commonly self-diagnosed conditions, and also one of the most commonly misdiagnosed conditions.
It doesn't help that ADHD is much more difficult to diagnose in individuals (particularly adults) who perform well in other metrics (IQ, etc.), as they oftentimes have simply developed compensatory mechanisms - these same mechanisms which have enabled them to have success also make a diagnosis much more difficult, even for professionals.
> It’s nice. I can let the A.D.D. run wild when I’m thinking about a problem or how to solve it but when I sit down to solve the problem, I force myself into that zone and try my hardest not to let anything in while I check mini-task after mini-task off on my list.
'Hyperfocus' is common in individuals with ADHD, but this doesn't sound quite right - hyperfocus isn't something that can be turned on and off easily. With ADHD, focusing on programming is a challenge as much as anything else is.
I had a professional diagnosis, and the diagnosis was just done via the same sort of questionnaire that you'd find on the Internet. (Though perhaps the tester was also observing my behavior, and the like.)
Unfortunately the methods vary, and not all professionals care to (or even are trained to) conduct the more elaborate diagnoses. However, for differential diagnoses (ie, the most difficult to make - 'is this really ADHD, or just the way that Joe's depression/OCD/etc. happens to manifest?), there are some more elaborate diagnostic methods. I can't comment firsthand, but I know these tests can span multiple media (in-person interviews, written self-evaluations, third-party reports, IQ tests, fine motor skills tests, achievement tests, etc.). I had a friend who went through a battery of these tests before her final diagnosis.
Very few people actually bother, because it's very expensive (and often not covered by insurance). The only reason you would go through this is if you want to be really sure that you have ADHD, or if you're trying to identify whether cognitive treatment (ie, therapy) is appropriate or whether a hidden neurological condition, etc. is actually the problem.
However, even for a professional, it's almost impossible to make an accurate self-diagnosis (or even a diagnosis of one's own children, for example). It's just too easy to fall into the trap of confirmation bias - or worse, ignore signs that may be visible to others, even if obscured.
I do agree that it's unfortunate that not all professionals are properly equipped to make these diagnoses - this is especially the case for children - because it leads to an overdiagnosis among healthy children, while those with less obvious (but still debilitating) symptoms slip through the cracks without ever realizing they have a problem, since they are able to 'make do'.
> (Though perhaps the tester was also observing my behavior, and the like.)
I am almost certain that this was the case as well (at least to an extent)!
I got the same feeling as you from reading the article, but as someone who has extreme trouble concentrating, I can definitely relate. I never had it diagnosed, but always suspected that I might have a similar problem, but my life worked out, so I didn't have to bring any attention to it.
When programming your brain is all over the place, slowly piecing together smaller parts of a greater whole. In my case it seems to work, but then again - I was never diagnosed with anything.
Not really. That's a common misunderstanding, but it's taking the name a little too literally. ADHD is actually the diagnosis (314), but one of the forms can be 'ADHD without hyperactivity'. However, 'hyperactivity' doesn't actually imply what most people thing it does, just from hearing the name, which is why the entire term is a bit of a misnomer.
> as someone who has extreme trouble concentrating, I can definitely relate.
ADHD is very, very different from simply 'having difficulty concentrating'. You can potentially have moderate or even severe ADHD without noticing any difficulties concentrating.
> In my case it seems to work, but then again - I was never diagnosed with anything.
I'd be really careful about generalizing your case to people with ADHD, then. To use a blunt comparison, it'd be as if someone claimed that watching funny movies made them feel happier and therefore it is a 'cure' for depression (a psychological condition much more complicated than mere 'unhappiness').
I've had problems in school; couldn't hang on to a job, and so on. Until I was sort of "forced" into learning how to program. It in turn forced me to focus, and it made all the difference.
Added note: Programming didn't make it easier to focus. But it seems to fit me, and my short attention span, plus it's just too darn interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yfkg0VWx3rM
I'm not certain that I agree with him in full. I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was in my early 20s. The ability to deeply focus on a project was helpful to me as well. I certainly don't think that we can call it a "cure" for ADD, but it can absolutely be a positive byproduct.
I dont think it is a gift at all, rather the only option we end up having to escape.
The difference is that the adhd brain is deprived of euphoric dopamine until you have that "hyper focus" activity that the adhd mind begins to depend on.
People with adhd are highly prone to becoming mentally dependent on activities like video games because of this euphoria. However, I find that being medicated appropriately and focusing on what I want to focus on is more rewarding than the activities I depended on pre-diagnosis and treatment.
I should note that I was tested for ADHD and the results indicated that I actually didn't have it, even though the symptoms of inattentive ADHD seem to describe me perfectly.
It sounds to me like you're describing the human condition more than ADHD. Amphetamines have been shown to increase performance on a wide variety of tasks for most people, the fact that they help you should definitely not be taken as a sign that you have ADHD.
Whatever the case, categorizing these symptoms into a disorder is rather inconsequential to the fact that taking Adderall has generally improved my quality of life. I honestly don't know if I'd be able to keep my job without it.
I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was about 7-8, by advice of a teacher. If I had to put a severity to it, I'd guess severe. When I was in young, it was a physical feeling of pain in my stomach when I fought against the urge to stand up and walk around. Before I was diagnosed, I literally couldn't write my own name without help, because I wouldn't sit and do it. After being put on medication, I basically got straight A's and B's through to high school.
Half way through high school, I started to hate the medication, I was depressed and tried to take myself off them secretly. Within the first week, most of my teachers started raising eyebrows and the school called home to see what was going on. After a few trips to the paediatrician, psychologist, and agreeing to weekly therapy at the school, I was taken off the medication.
It got pretty grizzly. One of my teachers would routinely send me out of the classroom for entire periods because he figured I wasn't going to learn anyway, and I was disrupting everyone else. I started to struggle in classes I loved, which got incredibly frustrating, I remember clearly knowing the answer to a problem in math class, but struggling to actually write it down, or being in music class (I was the school bands drummer), and struggling to to finish a single song because I couldn't help standing up and stepping away from the drum kit half way through.
It was devastating to me to find I couldn't do these things I knew I was good at without the help of the medication I fought to get off. I'd get off of school and just walk around town. Somehow, one day, I ended up walking into the local TAFE/Curtin (This is in a town in Australia), and for some reason started looking at their class lists. One of the admin's started talking to me, and convinced me to go talk to one of the teachers, who convinced me to give it a try.
Being a small town, the classes were basically empty, so I was almost one on one with the teacher, who let me work through at my own pace. I ended up powering through all the work for the Certificate III and Certificate IV pretty quickly, and he asked me to enrol in the Diploma (For those that don't know, here in aus a Cert/Diploma is under an undergraduate degree), introduced me to the teacher, and she gave me the entire course load in advance, which I also powered through.
They called me in and sat me down and told me I should apply for an undergraduate degree program in the city, and wrote letters of recommendation for me. I did, not really expecting anything to come of it (Remember I was about 14-15 at the time, and still attending high school, and basically failing), and after a few weeks of frantic phone calls, and incredible support from my amazing parents, I got accepted.
I ended up graduating just after my 18th birthday, with an award for grades.
I think about it pretty regularly, what my life would have been like if I hadn't discovered programming via TAFE. I'm 100% certain I could not have finished high school without medication, with high enough marks to get into Uni. And even if I could have, I probably would have assumed that my body would fight me every step of the way just like high school, and opted not to go. I wish I could tell all the people who are in the position I was in at that age, terrified of the future, feeling trapped in a body that won't let them be normal, that, hey, maybe there ARE things you can do. I've described programming as a 'blind spot' for my ADHD. And if I have a blind spot, maybe others do to. I'd like to hope that everyone has something they can do that helps them feel better.
I still struggle with ADHD, I still have trouble sitting through a movie, I get frustrated at myself at the drop of a hat, hell, to be honest, theres a part of me that's proud I managed to type this story out in only one sitting. But I can program, and I honestly feel like that saved my life.
Though I agree people with adhd each have their self medications. Mine was actually music growing up. My best friend likes cars.
Can you read text books and stuff? I have a hard time studying code, thinking about problems without my meds.
Are you inattentive too? Or just hyperactive?
Over the treatment, side effects I suffered were massive loss of apetite (And everything that goes with not being able to finish a meal, general feeling of faintness, malnutrition), stomach pains, headaches, constant anxiety (Maybe better described as a fear you can't shake?), tired all the time, eventually a sort of zombie feeling, where I'd only leave the house to go to school, didn't like talking to people, etc.
I really felt like a different person. When I took myself off the meds, I made different friends, and my old friends stopped hanging out with me. When they forced me back on, my old friends came back and my new ones left. When they permanently took me off the meds, my old friends left and my new ones came back, and most of them are still close today. None of this was conscious, and none of the people involved were actually told I'd gone off or on medication until well after the fact, it just sort of happened, and discovering that some people who'd been my friends for years didn't like me if I wasn't medicated (Thats how I saw it at the time) really frightened me.
I'd refuse to take the meds over school holidays (Which was OK'd by my doc), and I'd feel significantly better, so I quickly grew to resent them as a child. The paediatrician tried lowering doses very early on once I started showing side effects, and almost immediately my teacher sent home a letter asking what was going on, after spending a while exhausting other options, the paediatrician basically said it was unavoidable, we'd just have to cope one way or the other.
I guess I'm saying I understand they're a miracle for some people, but from age 7(ish) onwards, no type or dosage helped without harm, so I hated them. In the last few years, I have strongly considered (And still am) giving it another try, since rationally I know it likely won't be as bad as it was growing up, but I still have a pretty strong phobia of medication in general.
About text books, I'm actually pretty good with theory text books, things that present new ideas and concepts I can absorb, but 'How To' books I have trouble with, and mostly I can only read the code and learn by example.
Also: I suffer from both. Official last diagnosis is ADHD-C.
For instance mixed amphetamine salts (sounds like you were on adderall,), works for some people, while methylphenidate (ritalin) works much better. Then there is straterra which works for people where the other two failed. Another thing you should take into consideration is that there is a HUGE difference between Dexedrine and the typical generic amphetamine pills you would get at Walmart for example. (pure Amphetamine-D isomer, vs the mixed salt combo of Amphetmine-D and Amphetamine-L)
What I take specifically is generic amphetamine mixed salt instant release 30 mg that I split up into 4 doses ~3 hours apart. That is for a 12 hour day of work. Then Im also prescribed sleeping pills for insomnia.
The thing is, if I dont break up my pills, or if I make a bad call and decide to pull an all nighter. I get anxiety, swollen lymph nodes, rashes, zombie effect, head aches, cotton mouth, sensitive teeth, ect. One of the main reasons this happens is because you dont properly stay hydrated and well fed.
You need to be strict about your body's needs if you expect to be able to provide for what this medication requires to be effective. You need to support living habits beyond the scope of what the medication provides so that that your brain itself has the chemicals necessary for the medication to be effective.
If your stop eating, drinking, exercising, sleeping while on this medication it will stop working effectively gradually more and more after awhile. A perfect example of this, is if you have ever taken 4 pills in a row, they dont provide the same effectiveness, as if you were to take each of those pills after a full night of sleep. Or if you wait 3 days, they are even more effective.
You have to find a routine that works for you, and you have to research into your disorder. Research into the drugs. When I met my psychiatrist and told him exactly all that I know about the drugs and the neurology behind it, he said he really wished all of his patients took the time to educate themselves on these type of issues like I did because it makes his job a million times easier to find therapies that actually work.
Deciding to forsake medication, or your psychiatrist suggesting its the only choice is wrong. No offense, but you could achieve much greater potential and stability in your life/relationships when you are properly medicated.
I am very productive without my medications, especially as a musician. I had my adhd as under control and manageable as you can get it. People couldnt tell I had adhd. But it is extremely uncomfortable living that way. Learning to live with adhd, without medication only puts walls in your way. This isnt really a debatable matter whether disorders like this should be treated depending on a case by case patient's experience, I highly recommend you dont give up on it because other unfortunate individuals like us, going through a similar experience like you did, might try to give up as well rather than try something new.
All I know, is that im about 8 days without my medication right now, and while I can still code, that doesn't change the feeling that I'm back in my mental cage.
Try it out, just sit in a quiet room for five minutes and try to focus on your breath. It'l probably last a good 3 seconds, but keep trying it works like a muscle.
A problem I have though is that I can be focused when actually programming but then I can lose it just for a second and then the last 15 lines of code is just chinese to me even though I wrote it myself.
Another problem is simple math within a more complicated problem. For example, I'm still at university and when taking an exam for say, linear algebra and have to multiply matices, I could be stuck on like 22+17 and for some reason I can't get 9 out of 2+7, it's a weird feeling because I know it's correct but I guess something in my mind doesn't feel confident about it.
Also I fall asleep when I force myself to focus. Interesting courses that I'm excited to actually learn, I end up passing out in lecture regardless of the amount of sleep I had.
Then reading is annoying also I can read lines over and over again, I see the words, they go in my brain but nothing logical comes out.
I still love programming though =P
Can I ask, how much do you think the non-ability to focus on a task it is about procrastination and how much is about your ADD?
For example, I am doing my PhD now, and find it very hard to focus on actual research, instead losing time to procrastination (I'm looking at you, HN!). After hours, I also tend to have several different projects running at once, for which I struggle to prioritize and get any single one finished. However, when I'm at my paid job as a developer, I focus just fine. Given the other anecdotes here, I would expect a clinical diagnosis would show that I have signs of ADHD, but I would attribute them to laziness on my part.
I don't want to comment on your case specifically, but my fiancé is doing her PhD in psychophysiology, and more specifically, natural treatments for ADHD, and there is certainly a perception that ADHD is somewhat over diagnosed. I am interested if you would have attributed a different name (e.g. procrastination) to some of the behaviours you discussed before hearing about or being diagnosed with ADD/ADHD.
I agree, it's absolutely over-diagnosed. That's why I made a point to keep calling it mild in my post. It's not doctor prescribed, just a hunch that I have.
I think we all have attention trouble, especially today where everything is vying for our attention with a little ounce of dopamine. I notice when I don't want to do something, that's when I really let the ADD/procrastination combo kick in and run wild.
Check it out Journal of Psychiatric Research: A. Cubillo et al. / Journal of Psychiatric Research 44 (2010) 629–639
"Reduced activation and inter-regional functional connectivity of fronto-striatal networks in adults with childhood Attention-Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) and persisting symptoms during tasks of motor inhibition and cognitive switching."
I learned early on with a ZX81 and I can say one thing I did learn a bit more patience with the wobberly ram pack and loading/saving times.
Though I worked in a nice quite bedroom with no distractions and that is a big factor.
I would say that doing martial arts - well kendo helped me alot on many levels. Has nice culture and attitude compared to some of the other martial arts or at least how they are taught. Also `Do` being the way or as apposed to `Jitsu` suffix, which is the art of killing; Does highlight its more zen like mindset. Also knowing what distracts you and how it distracts you and controlling the distractions helps as well.
But like anything and anybody - if it works for you then it works nomatter what other people say and stick with your comfort level.ADHD is not primarily an attention disorder. Its primarily a motivational disorder. There are 3 types of ADHD recognized in American Psychiatry with a closely related disorder called SCT. ADHD-Hyperactive, ADHD-Inattentive, ADHD-Combined, Slow Cognitve Tempo.
To understand what causes these disorders, im going to have to summerize basic neurology fundamentals. The brain produces a chemical called dopamine that just about runs the entire show upstairs. When you accomplish a task, and you feel good about yourself; thats because dopamine will stimulate your brain with reward signals. When you look at the dishes and say "Im going to do that today." Its because you have dopamine to motivate you to get stuff done. Even sex and orgasms is directly related to dopamine release and stimulation.
The thing about dopamine is that it is stored inside a dopamine "bank" where dopamine is also generated by exercising, eating healthy foods, getting enough sleep, ect. This healthy lifestyle allows for a healthy amount of dopamine to accumulate in the brain.
The way dopamine leaves these banks to do work in the brain is by these cells called neurotransmitters that are responsible for fitting into the molecule sized "keyhole like doorways" to basically grab and push dopamine out.
After alot of dopamine is released out to act as messengers between neurons via the synapses, some of it is collected up by norepinephrine transmitters to be carried away and converted into adrenaline. (Adrenaline is where the "hyperactive/impulsive" aspect of the disorder comes in btw.) And of course any excess dopamine/norepinephrine that isnt carried away by other transmitters to other parts of the body is recollected back into their banks for future use.
In a normal healthy human, this all works wonderfully.
However in all the ADHD disorders and SCT disorder somewhere in this system is one or more types of neurotransmitters acting... disorderly. Basically they are not doing what they are supposed to be doing. Sometimes it is a problem primarily in the dopamine neurotransmitter department with not enough being brought out or too much being carried away which causes too much norepinephrine to be produced. Sometime its too little dopamine, and not enough norepinephrine (SCT). Sometimes its just the norepinpherine transmitter. This is the reason why different ADHD medications work on different ADHD patients. Adderall might cause too much dopamine out, where ritalin just stops to much dopamine from being carried to away. Sometimes straterra works which only affects the norepinephrine. Its a complicated disorder to say the least.
Which is why people say ADHD is commonly misdiagnosed. This is very true. Sometimes its depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder. Sometimes its just a kids bad diet and sleep habits, therefore they cant produce enough dopamine the natural way in the first place. (happy meal kids) ADHD doctors get a bad rep because they are giving kids speeds when in reality the parent is the disorder, not the childs brain. Its just highly complicated for a psychiatrist to know. Parents say fix my kid, and this is all the info they get to work with. Once a month, 15 minutes, "fix my kid", sign a pharmacy script that will be a hundred bucks. Happens like that all the time.
However what people dont realize, is that the reality of adhd is very very underdiagnosed also. More people live today, struggling everyday to make the best out of their lives, than there have ever been people misdiagnosed with ADHD period. People dont accept mental disorders exist, and that you need to get help for them.
The other problem with ADHD that people dont understand is that it is highly common to not only have ADHD but to have comorbid disorders like depression and anxiety either caused by the adhd, or completely unrelated to it requiring their own individual treatments.
Considering those disorders are linked to the same brain mechanics it is highly likely somebody who gets diagnosed with ADHD, thought they didnt have it when the perscriptions didnt fix all the problems despite the fact they do have adhd. They are likely to jump from anti anxiety medicine, over to Prozac, etc. The fact is this is a really hard to treat disorder because of the many different variations. Its complicated enough to justify the there are no two cases of ADHD that are the same. Its hard to diagnose something so broad and ETHICALLY treat it. For this reason, sometimes people seek help, hate the medications they get put on and try to fend for them selves again. I feel sorry for these people because their psychiatrists failed to help them. :(
Here is my personal story regarding ADHD. (btw calling it "ADD" was thrown out like 20 years ago. Let it go people.)
Im somebody who has/(d? who knows/cares) an IQ of ~145 growing up and dropped out of school. I can read perfectly fine. I also have and understand a sophisticated vocabulary. However I cant "read" without my medication.
I can not force myself to focus on what im supposed to think about. I can read a paragraph over and over again and not remember what I just read to the point that I just give up. I havent passed an english class since the 4th grade. I was the kid who was just "a lazy son of a bitch, fucking off all of his potential." growing up.
People didnt understand. I didnt understand, because no matter what I did, I could not motivate myself to do what I really wanted to do. People with adhd fail, because they dont have the ABILITY to succeed. "So try harder.", You dont understand. Its literally like asking a double amputee to try harder at running in a foot race. (okay... little tink tink is an exception. :P) Sometimes ADHD feels like a cage you are confined in that you constly feel unaware you are there in the first place. Sometimes the mind is like a hurricane where you think 90 mph when everyone else is driving in the slow lane. When we speak our mental thoughts have to be put on loop over and over when we want to say something fluent and slow, only to forget in the middle of the sentece what the entire conversation is about.
I always thought this was just normal for some people like me. I was never diagnosed as a kid because my intelligence allowed my parents and teachers to blame the school's material for my failures. "I was bored". Which is true, I was, but that didnt mean I didnt want to succeed I dropped out of highschool because I was tired of failing there. I thought perhaps the answer was out in the world, however things didnt get better. I could hold a job either. I was depressed for along time, not having an answer, until my brother said I acted like my Dad. That I had adhd.
At the time, I didnt want to think I had a "disorder". So I never looked at myself like that. Then I started reading about it adhd, watched dr russell barkleys talks (i saw somebody mentioned him. :) ), scheduled an appointment to see a psychiatrist and 2 years later i'm a software developer working on compilers and web servers. I study operating systems, graphic pipelines, use linux/unix (flex). I finally feel, successful after getting help for the first time in a long time. In fact, out of most of the people I know right now. Im heading towards a much higher pay job then them. Im already working free lance and making twice what they make in college a month, every 2 weeks. Its alot of hardwork to make up, but Im driven to succeed because 19 years of failing was horrible.
Look, Im going to be straight forward. There is no "cure" to adhd. Some people grow out of it because the human brain doesnt stop growing until sometime in your 20s, however people with adult adhd are stuck with it forever. I will grow into an old man with this disorder. My dad is an old man with ADHD. People learn how to manage by self medication.
Hyper focusing is a form of self medication via stimulating meditation. We can still think just like everyone else. Its just we do alot more thinking. Different stimulating activities grab different people. Video games, music for me, racing dirt bikes, sports.
Its just that these activities are not voluntary, nor are they experiences I would compare to programming because alot of reading and focus to fine detail is involved; which are traits most effected by ADHD.
For example when Im not on my medication, I cant work. However when im on my medication I can read a text book in two weeks. Its a black and white difference. I cant say that you are not the exception. (little think think?), but medication would be the metal prosthetic legs in this adhd footrace regardless.
I hope everyone understands us better if you actually read this. And pardon me if its full of grammar errors. I tried my best to proof read. (which ends up in me adding to it and making it worse. Lol) I wrote this without being on my meds btw. Which is why I wrote an essay. :P
But dont get me wrong, I suffered from depression as well. The trick to beat depression is to push yourself past the depressive thoughts by counter arguing with them. "You cant do that", so keep trying it until you do. "You arent attractive", fuck that who cares. Im me. "There were so many people who did this better", well fuck them too, Ill keep doing it until im better.
Of course this is after you get started on a treatment. Depression is too hard to motivate yourself to argue back without some sort of help. :P
The teaching system and the work system does not understand the abilities and natural ways of acting of these people, and this is why we feel so hard to adapt to the old systems.
It is natural evolution of the human being, being suppressed by those who want to keep us in control and medicate it away with feeling blocking chemicals.
But it is a great skill. The ability to see things differently, to process more information at once, to build systems inside your head. Embrace this side of you. It is a great power, and medication only suppresses it.
Learn to master it and you will become a master of yourself, and you will not need medication. Meditation & Yoga are the one methods that work for me, without any external help. It takes self-discipline, but it is definitely worth it.
I have suffered with this way of thinking for my whole life, and I could not understand why I could not fit in. I struggled through my teen years, finding peace only in creating new things, usually in front of the computer.
I have always somehow understood that the medication traditional doctors give is not right for us, but I had a long period where I used to medicate myself with cannabis. This worked for a while, but after about 3 years of doing this, I knew this was not the way. I had become addicted, was suffering when I didn't have any and always was thinking about the future and when I would get my medication.
At the same time thought I started doing kundalini yoga and learning the skill of meditation more and more. The finding of kundalini yoga was a blessing, as first time in my life I felt I had true power within me, without needing any help from outside.
I struggled with letting go of cannabis for a long time, but finally I managed to do it. Now I've been totally sober for 7 months and feeling better than ever. I have replaced meditation with medication, and focusing on the inner strength instead of outer strength.
This has allowed me to focus my ever wandering mind
I am a programmer by day and night, and meditation and yoga really helps me concentrate and keep my mind clear even during stressful times at work.
Find your inner strength. Throw away your medication. Throw away the limiting factor of identifying with ADD/ADHD. It is only an invention of those who do not experience it themselves.
I'm actually getting tested for ADD on the recommendation of my therapist (the preliminary answer seems to be that no, I do not have ADD). I most emphatically cannot work while I have a TV running. In fact, I can't even seem to program and listen to music at the same time.
I struggled with music for a while too. Ambient stuff like Tycho, The Mattson 2 and Blue Sky Black Death really helped at the outset.
I've taken up meditation as well and long-distance swimming. I've found it easier to do both of those since I started coding. I find it much easier to set a goal for myself and achieve it rather than think about it, start, stop, start, stop.
Cure may be too strong of a word. As I mentioned in the post, I think my brain as begun to rewire itself for period of intense focus rather than incredibly short sprints.