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Comment by roughly | Hacker News Reader

I used to have a Chase card, but decided I didn’t like dealing with them, so I closed the account.

And then they bought my bank, and I had a Chase account again. I gave them a chance and they were still awful, so I switched banks.

A couple years after that, they bought my bank, and I had a Chase account again. This isn’t a duplicate paragraph, it happened again. I gave them a chance again, and they were still awful, so I switched banks again (to a credit union, which, fingers crossed).

Now I guess I get to do business with Chase again, which is neat. I’m happy to be part of an economy where I can vote with my dollar like this.

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Far be it from me to get in the way of someone protesting megabank centralization, but...

I have to imagine that this bank relationship will be different from those previous acquisitions? I never interacted with Goldman Sachs for the duration I've had my Apple Card—the relationship is entirely with Apple and their iOS app. I don't imagine that to be much different when Chase is the issuer.

We’ll find out, but it still sort of sticks in the craw to be stuck doing business with them again.

AFAIK in the current setup, only the UI is Apple's; any time you message customer service or open a dispute, that is handled directly by Goldman employees, and decisions to raise/lower your credit limit are also made by Goldman. All of those parts will be handled by Chase now.

I have a couple store brand cards backed by Chase (like the Amazon one) and they are basically exactly like any other first party Chase card. They show up on the Chase dashboard. You call Chase customer service for issues. Payments happen through Chase. The card benefits are all provided by Chase. The only difference is that there's Amazon printed in front and the points the card earns aren't regular Chase points. Of course their relationship with Apple could be different, but I doubt it'll be anything like the Goldman one. Remember that Goldman didn't have a consumer business at all before they got into the partnership.

"Of course their relationship with Apple could be different, but I doubt it'll be anything like the Goldman one" I can nearly guarantee this is completely wrong. It will be just like Goldman. That's literally the point of getting the card, is do everything through Apple and Goldman is just the backbone and support (through Apple's UI). Apple's contract with Goldman was until 2030, they wouldn't let Goldman out of it unless they were able to find a new partner with same or better experience and terms. They could have choose Synchrony, etc if Chase didn't agree. And clearly Chase was willing to concede to Apple since they don't even offer high yield savings, but agreed to for Apple since thats part of their existing offerings. Right now Apple decides the Promos for Apple Card, and at most maybe Chase will have a little more involvement in those but probably not. So in realty the only real world change is probably better customer support than Sachs, and Chase may not offer higher risks customers credit or as much like Goldman did and finally they may not offer the very low APR's that Apple card is known for, for it's best customers.

My problem with Chase and PNC is that their "fraud detection" seems to be random die rolls or monkeys throwing darts at my picture on a wall. I love the 5 minutes of anxiety after each and every purchase where I wonder if it will just randomly fail.

Have to disagree there. While the iOS wallet apple is all apple and thats what you will use for checking your statements and making payments which is great. But anytime I have to actually interact with for support that is 100% with Goldman. When you do you support through the iMessage chat feature it's all Goldman on the other end, not Apple at all. And I've had to deal with them far too many times, and each time was absolutely terrible. Because of Goldman but also because of the platform Apple gives them for support, since you send a message have to wait for a text response. So feels like a chat but unlike a chat responses can take a while more like email, but then if they respond and you dont respond very fast then it closes it out and your response triggers a how can we help and you start all over, which is unlike email. So it's the worst of Chat and the worst of Email. Hopefully that is revamped with the new relationship. And if you have to call you get Sachs not Apple. Chase isn't great but expect much better than Sachs.

What made you not like dealing with them?

Maybe I’m a passive user, but my credit cards are autopay set it and forget it. As someone with no opinion on cc companies, curious what gave you such a bad impression.

From what I've heard, they have an obnoxious fraud workflow.

It is possible to get locked out of your card abroad and not have a way to unlock it.

I’ve disputed fraud a couple of times on my Chase cards. It was.. fine? Uneventful and simple.

Their problem is with false positives they find, not true positives you find. My application for a credit card was somehow flagged as fraudulent. Chase repeatedly asked for additional forms of ID, then told me the scans I sent were illegible. (The scans were fine; I think they just needed an excuse.) I went to a branch with the physical documents, and they said they couldn't look at them. The branch put me in an office and called the same telephone support, with the same result. I eventually gave up.

I guess I'm lucky they rejected me before any money changed hands. I've heard horror stories from people with significant assets at their bank, locked out until an actual lawsuit (the letter from a lawyer didn't work) finally got their attention. I think it's like Google support, usually fine but catastrophic when it's not.

> The branch put me in an office and called the same telephone support, with the same result.

As far as I can tell, going to a branch of a big bank to address a problem nowadays is similar to going to a cellphone store for tech support. All they can really do is call the same hotline or fill out the same webform you’d have access to at home.

Anecdotal but just came back from 2 weeks abroad and didn’t have to take any action to continue using my chase card. Also I believe the conversion rate was better than the local.

I’ve had the good fortune of working with actually good banks with actually good customer service, and Chase always sticks out for how indifferent they are. If you don’t need anything beyond the app, sure, they’re probably fine - although I seem to remember them shoving ads in my transaction feed - but I’ve never had luck getting ahold of a human with any variety of autonomy or agency when I needed one.

they have very strict AML controls as well. For example if you regularly withdraw a few thousand in cash to pay contractors for a house project they may close your account.

Did you have first republic? RIP. I miss that bank so much.

Yup, that was one of them. Chase botched transferring the bill pay over after spending 3 months saying they’d transfer bill pay and then told me over the phone they hadn’t said that while I was looking at the current page on their website that said they’d transfer bill pay.

First Republic was great - they were the reason I didn’t go to a credit union sooner. Schwab also has amazing customer service, if you’re still searching for a new home and aren’t willing to make the leap to a CU.

>Now I guess I get to do business with Chase again, which is neat. I’m happy to be part of an economy where I can vote with my dollar like this.

You were unusually unlucky. The US has a very decentralized banking system, with thousands of institutions. The Big Four (JPM, BAC, C, WFC) have under 50% of total deposits; the comparable figure for Canada's Big Five is ~85%,

Creeping fees if accidentally pass a withdrawal limit, not to mention abysmal interest rates for parking your money there.

Just want to point out that people have said it’s been very very hard to get Goldman Sachs to dispute a transaction, so I’m hoping that Chase will offer better service than Goldman as Goldman’s actual service is supposedly not very good.

What is awful though? Like what was wrong. I have one of their Amazon cards and their app is decent and their card has all the standard functionality.

Chase spelled my name incorrectly on my account. It took several phone calls over 2-3 months to get it fixed. Humorously awful, I guess.

Same and Same. Closed account because of bad experiences. Later they bought my bank. Raised prices 10x+ and lowered services. Got out ASAP.

Switch to Android and you should be safe.

Sounds like a recursive function

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