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Comment by cubefox | Hacker News Reader

Any speculation on what the equivalent TSMC node is for Intel 18A?

https://x.com/Kurnalsalts/status/1962173515815424003

Logic Density (may be inaccurate, also it's not the only metric for performance ): Raipidus 2nm ≈ TSMC N2 > TSMC N3B > TSMC N3E/P > Intel 18A ≈ Samaung 3GAP

But 18A/20A already has PowerVia, while TSMC will implement Backside Power Delivery in A16 (next generation of N2)

So 18A is roughly TSMC N4P. N4P is part of the N5 family.

18a supposedly has some advantages in power efficiency and some other areas compared to TSMCs approach. Ultimately, TSMC doesn’t have a 2nm product yet, so it is a pretty big deal Intel is competitive again with TSMC latest. Samsung is incredibly far behind at this point.

TSMC commenced N2 mass production last month.

Didn’t realize that, but they are trailing a bit. Will be interesting to see when the first products ship. My understanding is it will be AMD servers.

TSMC is not trailing. They’re so far ahead that Intel’s 18A is equal to their N5 family in density.

Therefore, N2 is 2 generations ahead of 18A by definition.

Therefore power advantage you’re referring to is backside power delivery. This is a need long term but it doesn’t bring as much power benefits as you think. TSMC’s customers don’t appear to demand this feature as highly since it’s been getting pushed back to 16A. The design change for designers don’t seem worth it yet.

By measure of density, but by performance to watt 18a is likely superior to n3. So I don’t think it is fair to say they are cleanly 2 generations ahead, more like 1 or 1.5 ahead now. Yes, n2 / n3 are overall more mature and well rounded processes at this point in time. But this is a big step for Intel and if they can prove 18a they could start bleeding. Bit of market share from TSMC.

It’s the final phase of Intel’s 5N4Y plan aimed at reaching parity with TSMC by the end of 2025, so it’s comparable to TSMC’s most advanced node N2 - [0]

As for comparison between the two: According to TechInsights, Intel's 18A could offer higher performance, whereas TSMC's N2 may provide higher transistor density - [1]

[0] - https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intel-announ...

[1] - https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/intels-18a-and-ts...

tsmc n2 i think (2nm)

If that is the case then it's interesting how intel managed to catch up so quickly.

After their 7/10nm delay, they are bringing 2nm into production.

They skipped 5nm and 3nm, and that is indeed an accomplishment.

I hope the yeilds are high.

They didn't skip it.

They have Intel 7, Intel 4, Intel 3 nodes. Anyways, Intel's names do not equal to the same number on TSMC. They're usually 1 or 1.5 generation behind with the same name.

So Intel 3 would be something like TSMC N6.

Wow, I didn't realize Intel was slacking on top of their node rename. Sure their "10nm" was ahead at the time, but if they'd left the numbers alone they'd be a much closer match to everyone else today instead of even further off.

Closer to n3 or n5 I would think. Intel's node numbering is far more aspirational than TSMCs.

If it's still being updated the wikipedia article about semi fabrication has a table with some reasonably comparable numbers (when known) for Intel X and TSMC Y

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