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Comment by servo_sausage | Hacker News Reader

China is already doing abominable things; how people react to additional surveillance is always related to what the state is actually doing with that information.

So a system that supports the abduction of polital rivals (an actual human rights violation) is not the same as a system that supports the lawful arrest of someone breaking a law that's accepted as part of a democracy.

I also think the scale of investment plays a part, the investment in surveillance in China is absurd. Its a significant number of people (per capita) that do nothing but monitor people. These new systems are rather cheap; so much so that they feel a whole lot more inevitable.

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> is not the same as a system that supports the lawful arrest

That is not the system that the US has had since 2025, and the executive has made it very clear that it is not the system that it wants the US to have.

Meanwhile, SCOTUS has made it very clear that nothing this executive does will have any consequences for it.

Rule of law is a fairy tale when ICE can snag anyone they want off the street and throw them into some CECOT torture pit.

Rule of law is a fairy tale when the executive disregards direct judicial orders.

Democracy is when you get abducted and sent to CECOT because some shitty AI face app said so

Democracy is when the useful idiots cheer on the abductions/renditions with full-throated support, relishing in the spectacular human suffering of others as if two wrongs make a right. But those pounds of flesh are merely being chummed at them by the same exact corporate-government propagandists that shipped their jobs to China in the first place, now promising naked fascism as a way of somehow putting things right when it's really just the next step of the ongoing destruction of their country. But I'm sure when they start to wake up to the grave error they've made (ten+ years too late), their egos will protect themselves with cognitive dissonance while the machine throws them some new scapegoats to distract themselves with.

ICE does not care about "lawful arrests". Like common, that is not their thing.

That's a totally wrong way to think about it, akin to "I have nothing to hide so why not let the government look into all my communications"

> abduction of political rivals

Couldn’t have timed it better, we just pulled off the most high profile abduction of a geopolitical rival in history.

> we just pulled off the most high profile abduction of a geopolitical rival in history

We literally did the same thing in 1989 [1]. Russia planned to do it to Zelensky when they first invaded.

None of this makes it okay. But it's hyperbolic to say it's unprecedented, even in U.S. history.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_invasion_of_Pana...

In both systems the law is being carefully followed to support inhumane goals

ICE and USBP are quite famously breaking many laws.

Unfortunately ICE has somewhat broad powers that allow them to enforce Federal laws that local LEOs cannot get away with.

This should be challenged in a court.

Some say unfortunate, others say fortunate. It's a luxury belief to want to let people walk across the border and have no repercussions. Enforce the border, get all the illegals out.

Everyone in this country regardless of their status is still guaranteed due process by the Constitution. The Venezuelans and Abrego Garcia sent to CECOT was done without due process and in violation of a Federal Judge's orders. Not to mention CECOT is a horrible prison.

I think it's cruel and inhuman to deport people already here unless they're engaged in criminal activities. Most of them are hard working people who gave up everything to flee bad circumstances in their home countries. We're a nation of immigrants.

You want the border secure, fine (I would prefer immigration reform since we have a large country and tons of economic opportunity migrants fulfill). But don't be so cruel as to support what ICE is doing to hard working people who have established lives here. Most of them are not criminals.

You believe laws were not followed in the case of deportations and seem to be angry about that but simultaneously you want the laws, that demand deportations of illegal aliens, to not be followed. Do you notice any irrationality with this position?

Unfortunately for them they are technically criminals by entering illegally. They all knew they were taking a calculated risk by coming here, some made it, some did not.

Agreed on the reform, we are in a pendulum stage now where the previous admin let too many in without reform (The first 3 years) and how it's gone too far the other way.

Overstay and unlawful presence are civil offenses, not criminal. Vast majority of undocumented people overstay visas and entered legally.

Asylum seekers are being abducted and deported to countries they have no ties to. It's perfectly legal to cross borders without inspection to seek asylum.

They are still deportable crimes. You cannot walk into a country and never leave just "because".

And no, the vast majority are not overstays. Less than half are overstays that came here legally [0]. So 58% crossed the border illegally.

Asylum seekers have been coached on what to say to claim asylum. Few are seeking asylum at all. The system is obviously being abused when these people vacation back to their home country that was so "dangerous" they claimed asylum.

[0] https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/R47848

Again, this is the purpose of ICE with broad Federal powers.

Why didn't the previous administrations change it? Perhaps next time they will?

This is suicidal empathy. Mercy for the guilty is cruelty for the innocent.

I think it's cruel and inhumane to let millions unvetted into our neighborhoods, schools, and communities.

It means less jobs for American young people. It means loss of culture and shared spaces. It means your kids can't play with their neighbors because they don't speak the same language.

It's weakness and we need to stop rationalizing it.

Would you want these people as your neighbor? Not speaking English? How about your whole town?

It's cruel. The modern left does not care about Americans, only the foreigners who can't build a safe and prosperous country of their own.

I admit I didn’t expect this pushback against America’s corrupt current regime which is obviously morally bankrupt. But, by the letter of the law and the function of the court system they are acting with complete impunity within what they have been permitted to do to the detriment of people everywhere.

> In both systems the law is being carefully followed to support inhumane goals

I’m not sure it is though, there are plenty of headlines about judicial orders being disregarded. This last few weeks it has been the required release of the Epstein papers, though that has been railroaded by a conveniently timed attack on a neighbour.

There are plenty of other examples.

Why do we need to give free stuff to every person that wades across the southern border?

What is our legal or moral obligation to eviscerate our already-limited social safety net for outsiders who, by and large, do not contribute to them?

You are free to die on the cross and spend your income this way, but how is it "humane" to use violence (taxes) to reappropriate the fruits of my labor for your special interests?

Bc these immigrants as a whole contribute more to the federal state and local tax base than they take out, it’s super simple. I guess you don’t like the economy.

Another artful legal vs. illegal conflation - citation needed. I have no doubt in my mind folks coming in on H-1B and O-1 visas contribute more than they take out: nobody is disputing that.

When an illegal immigrant making $2/hr under the table cuts his hand off at a meat packing plant, who pays the hospital bill? How many tax dollars does this one incident wipe out?

Vastly less than the tax dollars for all the foreign military interventions including the latest adventure in Venezuela, if you're really worried about wasting tax dollars.

A universal healthcare system would cover everyone in the country when it's needed. The US is a massive, highly developed economy, no reason we couldn't fund that.

US foreign "policy" is part of why you call them shitholes, then you wonder why they come there.

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