Nori Lights - Bicycle Illumination System | Hacker News Reader

Nori Lights - Bicycle Illumination System

kickstarter.com

31 pointsdavidclopez42 comments

I hate to be that guy, but this looks just like an existing product: http://www.lunasee.com

The major difference seems to be that Lunasee is powered by a hub dynamo (rather than batteries). It's also currently only available pre-installed on some bicycle models, and as an aftermarket part for motorcycles, but they say they plan to sell an aftermarket bicycle part, too.

Thanks for pointing this out ken, and i would like to add that we have several patents around this in US and Canada, and several pending in other countries.

We would also like to do a battery aftermarket version, but it does come with complications (rim, battery life, etc).

Thanks for your comments... Lunasee team

Reflective tape on the rims is a common solution. There's reflective tape that looks black in daylight and is available at any bike shop. There are reflectors you can put on the spokes, too, also available at any bike shop.

Here's a video showing what reflective tape looks like in the dark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm5muia44XI&feature=relmf...

As for actively illuminated lights, there are a large number of commercial products available. I'm too lazy, but anybody tempted to donate to a project melodramatically promising to "save lives" in the name of somebody's beloved grandfather should first drop by their local bike shop and see if perhaps it's already possible to light themselves up however they want for a modest amount of money.

Indeed. Pretty much all Schwalbe commuting/city tires have huge bands of retroreflective material around the sidewalls that make your bicycle quite visible to anything beside you with a light. (They're really good tires, too.)

Most bicycle lights also intentionally spit out a little bit of light to the side to also make you more visible. I'd recommend investing in a good front light and good rear light (with built-in reflector) before bothering with wheel lights. Wheel lights are cool if you're willing to maintain twice as many lights as you need (batteries, remembering to turn them on, etc.), but I prefer ease of use and so will not be getting these. (My rear light automatically turns on when there is both darkness and vibration, and it's a reflector, so there are few cases when I ever need to think about it. I keep my front light with me at all times and just need to press one button to turn it on. And I carry spare batteries, just in case.)

One thing I don't like about the reflective strip on tires is that it can create the illusion that the bike is stationary, because you don't see the wheels turning. The Nori video shows the same problem. I suspect anything that makes the turning of the wheels evident is a big improvement.

Some people have a lot of fun with it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU_O-OKuaeI&feature=relat...

I don't really understand that. If the bike is moving, it will look like a pair of moving circles because the bike is moving through space, not sitting on a repair stand.

Anyway, wouldn't you take the same action for a stopped object in your path as for a moving object in your path?

I might not be in their path yet :-) I don't want to get hit by someone rolling through a right on red because they thought the shiny circles were a reflection from a sign across the street or what-not. Depth perception in the dark is greatly aided by knowing what you're looking at, and lights are especially tricky to identify and locate when there's water on the road, lots of illuminated signage around, etc.

I still worry that a driver is going to see my obviously spinning wheels and not understand what they're looking at. I want my reflection in the dark to immediately suggest a cyclist, not a set of mysterious floating lights, since depth perception is aided by knowing what you're looking at. A car can travel a long distance in the time it takes to go from "WTF is that spinny thing in my field of vision?" to "Oh, a cyclist in the right lane." (It doesn't help that I'm in Texas, where cyclists are still an oddity to many drivers.) I'm considering putting some reflective tape on my helmet -- I wonder if that would help.

You could just obscure parts of the strip with some electrical tape, so you can see the dark part moving in a circle.

Or still have a conventional reflector on the spokes...

The single biggest problem seems to be that the adhesive phosphorescent strip is attached to the rim, which on most bikes is what the brake blocks press against to stop the bike. If you look closely in the video, his bike has no brakes!!! (You even see him use his feet to stop.) So much for "saving lives"!

Disc brakes would overcome this, but that's going to be an expensive retrofit for most cyclists.

As it's a cruiser the more likely explanation is that it's equipped with a rear coaster brake. Not sure why he's not running anything up front, however.

I wasn't familiar with that type of braka, and had to look it up. I can't see a hub on the back wheel, and I don't see him using any type of back-pedal or braking action to stop (just his feet).

So, yes, for those few bikes that don't have conventional brakes, this lighting system may be an option.

That doesn't change the fact that this product will be useless to the majority of people who might purchase (sorry, sponsor :-) it through KickStarter, at least without sacrificing the ability to stop.

The fact that this isn't called out in the video or text is deceptive. There's no way he isn't aware of this serious shortcoming.

It's entirely possible that you could mount the strip below the brake track.

The one demonstrated in the video or described in the pledge page wouldn't. I've since learned here is an alternative flawed solution in the updates section.

Other than for the "cool" factor (which suits his old-fashioned bike), good old fashioned clip-on reflectors will do a far better job.

In the "updates" section, he shows that there is a new system to attach some phosphorescent plastic between the spokes next to the rim. It isn't clear if these are included with the standard backer price, but it does allow the system to be used on bikes with brakes. Hopefully he updates the front page to make this more apparent, since it was my first question also.

Thanks hadn't spotted that - it really should be on the front page. So it seems when he first put this kick-starter up he really had overlooked the obvious (despite having no brakes himself) or hoped everyone else would overlook it, until potential backers pointed out that it wasn't going to fly.

Now he has a bigger problem - his new system appears to work by wedging into the spokes where they converge at the rim, so he will need to supply the correct radius of strip for every size rim on the market.

There's a flat part right by the tire where the brakes contact the rim, but there's also a partially sideways-facing surface as the rim curves around to the other side. You can put tape on that surface without affecting the brakes.

That's generally only true on road bikes made for going fast. The rims are deep like that for aerodynamics. Cruisers (like shown in the videos), hybrids and most other transportation bikes tend not to have those deep rims.

i think coaster (hub) brakes are much more common in the usa than elsewhere (i didn't know of them until i used one in the states).

I like that bicycling is gaining in popularity outside of my country (The Netherlands), but do you need to re-invent the wheel every time? Simple (theft-resistant) reflector strips have been the norm here for a long time: http://www.fietsen.123.nl/thumbs/300x205h/2010-03/2bs_bicycl...

The answer: yes, they really think they do. As a Belgian living in North America, I find myself repeating the same thing over and over again: Europe figured this shit out 30 years ago. Just do what they are doing.

But then they insist it couldn't possibly work. So they do dumb things like requiring bike helmets, but not reflectors or brakes.

I don't understand why certain for-profit products are allowed on Kickstarter and others aren't. Is the decision-making process totally random? Or is it just up to the particular whims and desires of those at Kickstarter making the decisions?

Sorry to gripe, but I've seen far too many undeserving products (I'm not making any judgment about this particular one) make the cut while deserving ones get rejected. And if you have a web app you're trying to fund, forget it. Why hardware products make the cut and software ones don't is a complete mystery.

This is genius, how come no one thought of this before, it is cheap, provides more safety for bicyclers and freaking looks like tron bikes! This guy deserves to make money.

This is really cool, and doesn't require car headlights shining on your bike like reflectors do.

When driving in my car at night, I would occasionally notice some bicycles with reflective strip around the tires. Car headlights just light them up, making it very easy to see a bike from the side. I finally found that many Schwalbe tires have this reflective strip (e.g. http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/schwalbe.asp third paragraph).

I saw a bike the other night with a half-dozen or more of those in-spoke reflectors. Very visible in headlights.

Continental also makes bike tires with reflective strips on the side. I got this shiny one: http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/de/en/continental/...

It easily dismisses the need for the nori lights however good lookin those are.

Actually there are several similar solutions out there already. Check out http://www.monkeylectric.com or http://revolights.com

Still, this is a pretty neat addition to this increasingly crowded bicycle light accessory space.

Yeah, I was also struck by the similarity to revolights (which, incidentally, was also kickstarter-funded). This one seems somewhat less effective (no forward or rear illumination, and no easy way, from the side, to distinguish the front wheel from the back to guess the direction of travel), but on the other hand, I suspect it will be cheaper, easier to install, and get you much more use on a charge.

Dutch law requires bicycles to have spoke or tire reflectors since 1987. In addition, reflectors on the pedals and a white strip (30 cm) at the back of the bike are also mandatory.

Pedal reflectors are required in the UK but it is hard to buy pedals with them...

Not sure how legal this is in most places. I think colored lighting on the rodas is generally banned in most states.

I expect/hope that if so, any attempt to prosecute would result in wide media coverage/negative publicity for the prosecutor. The case would be dropped, and/or the product would be made legal - by adjustment of the law and/or the Nori.

Laws for lights on bicycles are generally separate from laws for lights on motorized vehicles. For instance, in California, the law requires 5-9 reflectors and a white headlight, but only disallows a blue light. Any light of any kind other than blue is allowed.

http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21201.htm

Hi guys. Yes this product already exists at www.lunasee.com and we have several patents around this technology. We have not produced an aftermarket version for bicycles yet primarily due to many of the complications addressed in this string. We do have aftermarket versions on the drawing board though.

We have tried to contact Nori Lights with no response so far. We have invested time and money to protect this -- and hope Nori Lights and interested consumers will respect this.

We appreciate all feedback.

Lunasee Team

If you look at the video you can see how the amount of black light in a given spot changes the brightness of that spot. It could be cool to create different light patterns, changing the intensity of the leds with the speed of the bike.

No. Most countries rightfully regulate light sources on vehicles. That would only serve to irritate drivers, not warn them or make it easier to identify you.

The US is not one of these countries, though some states and localities require lights on bicycles and that they be particular colors. Germany specifies that the rear red light must not be constant-on, but many people believe that blinking rear lights confuse drivers at night (attract drunk drivers, affect distance perception of normal drivers, etc.) and since the jury is still out, it's nice to be able to make your own decisions rather than require the government to make them for you.

I don't see any safety problem with "pimping out" your bike with rim lights that change color with the bike's speed. Just realize that you look like a twelve year old kid when you do. And make sure you have real lights for actual riding.

These systems look neat, but I find them inelegant in that they're only visible from the sides, so they're more of a supplement to front and rear lights than a complete solution.

He acknowledges that in the video, and I think it's perfectly fine. I can't imagine a system for bikes that can accomplish both.

how about two flexible strips of LEDs? one wraps around the seatpost, the other around the stem. same overhead as front and rear lights, but you can easily see them from the sides.

Imagine both solutions at night in 50m distance. In which case can you identify that the light source comes from a bicycle?

The nori lights while novel make it immediately obvious that you are looking at a bicycle and that allows others to take appropriate action.

This could be done with EL wire.

Great idea, it does look like the Tron bikes. I think putting the front and rear lights will attract more pledges.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com