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Comment by nospice | Hacker News Reader

Some folks might enjoy writing for the sake of writing. But I'd wager they don't enjoy, say, plumbing for the sake of plumbing? When their toilet is clogged, they call a pro and don't treat it as a journey of personal growth.

I think this works both ways. Your average plumber doesn't enjoy writing. It's something they might need to do from now and then, but if you give them a magic box that solves the problem, they're gonna be overjoyed. One less chore.

Plumbing or writing, I don't think you can convince people not to take shortcuts by telling them "but the fact it's hard is what makes it worthwhile for you!"

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So if you don't like plumbing, don't get a robot to do your plumbing and then claim you're a "vibe plumber".

Why not? (Other than they don't currently exist). I would absolutely get a robo-plumber. I have other tools for fixing things around the house. LLMs are just tools.

I think the issue is when you claim to have _done_ something yourself when in fact you didn’t. I think people have trouble differentiating real value vs what they think of as some flavor of carpetbagging

Talented creators have hated poseurs since time immemorial.

I think the issue is that it's gotten far easier to be a poseur than ever before.

Nothing wrong with getting a robot plumber, I would do it too. But I wouldn't go around doing all my friend's plumbing and/or completely redo all of the plumbing in my home with it and then call myself a plumber (notwithstanding that plumbers are licensed professionals).

You've changed the hypothetical there. Calling yourself a vibe plumber and calling yourself a plumber seem like very different things.

My takeaway from the read wasn't that it was trying to convince anyone to take any particular action, and even emphasized that the mediocrity of AI output as more people use it will be a benefit to the smaller number of people doing their own thinking.

My impression is that the author’s intended audience is other ‘Writers™’.

But you can still make the case that writers and plumbers alike who enjoy doing their work for its own sake should embrace the reward effected by conquering the tedium of their trade and not take shortcuts.

The plumbing metaphor is interesting. The most adjacent place I've heard this metaphor is in theology (Mako Fujimura)

The goal of plumbing is to fix / repair; certainly it's possible to enjoy fixing and repairing. But is the joy of writing in "repairing ideas"? How is that a separate concept from creating new ones?

I think the crucial difference here is that literally anybody can write without taking on years of training or a tremendous financial burden.

But are they writing? In that specific sense of high prestige communication? Sounds like stolen aura.

Now, code by Gen AI is straightforward in comparison. Coding is not writing poetry, even if the lines also don't reach the right margin

This Software Architect would disagree with you :)

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/when-architects-plumb-why-you...

Sure, but if you outsource your plumbing you don't call yourself a variation of a plumber (a vibe-plumber I guess). The magic box is nothing new, it's just that it used to be operated by a human.

Why would I call a plumber when I can fix it myself for free and learn something new while I'm at it?

Sure, its's free*.

- except the cost of materials and gas to drive to the hardware store, which you'll likely do twice or thrice as you realize you bought the wrong thing or need some other specific tool, that you'll use one time a year or less

- except the cost of your own time away from personal projects and family

- except the cost of hiring a plumber afterwards to professionally fix the problem you caused by DIY'ing it without the knowledge and experience that a professional brings

One does not simply "hire a plumber". You're suggesting to find, vet, arrange, brief, supervise, assess and pay a plumber. Your time is still gone and you still pay for materials and gas. Then you still might need to hire yet another plumber to fix it better anyway. If it's really bad you might need to hire a lawyer…

I see these arguments time and time again, and the two sides fail to see one simple thing: different people enjoy different things. The person who would hire a plumber would pay to not have to do plumbing, the person who'd do it themselves would pay to do it because it's fun for them.

And now you understand each other!

Having fixed several appliances over the years as well as household problems, none of those things get remotely close to the cost and toil of hiring a tradesman. I recently tried to hire a plumber because my hot water heater was throwing an error code and not working. I had to call 3 different people just to wait for the guy to come out 2 days later and quote me over a grand. I fixed it myself instead. The part was $20 and it took 15 minutes.

The fact that you ask such a question shows how different people are. It almost reads like a joke to me.

I have zero interest to learn about plumbing and I would pay a professional even if I could do it myself to avoid any doubts or fears of messing it up.

I disagree. My toilet was leaking. I diagnosed the issue as a bad tank gasket. Replace said gasket and things are working fine. Could a licensed plumber have done it faster. Possibly. But a $300 service call was avoided.

Now I had my house replumbed to relocate well tank, water softener, water heater, whole house filter, relocated washing machine and slop sink. That I left to the professionals. But I watched to learn more.

If I outsource my thinking and can’t see how the box does it, what is the purpose?

This is being pedantic though. Is there nothing in your life that you outsource because you just don't enjoy doing, or it would take too much time away from what you actually want to do? It's highly unlikely you grind your own flour at home from wheat berries, even if you do make your own bread. Plenty of people enjoy home brewing, and plenty of people would rather buy a good brew from a local brewer and have no interest in brewing. Even if you're into wood working, you're probably not milling your own boards. You might like cooking, but you're probably not mining your own salt. There's a pretty good chance that you don't make your own pasta from scratch. And also a good chance you're not butchering your own meats. Someone I'm sure is finding artistry and fulfillment in doing these things for themselves. And for other people they're distractions that take away from doing what they actually want to do.

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