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Comment by greenavocado | Hacker News Reader

"This paper we wrote shows the legal justification for the kidnapping, so the kidnapping we performed is completely legal."

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Well, in this case, yes. This is the trouble with growing executive power, they can indeed give themselves permission.

They don't have jurisdiction over another country that's not how this works

Reality is reality. There is only one reality and the man is on the ship. No matter what you think. Reality is "how this works".

Indeed, why bother having states of law at all? Jungle law works well enough in reality.

You believe in something which has never existed and will never exist. In international relations, there has never been anything besides "might is right". Anything else is an illusion. At most something that leaders pay lip service to, when it aligns with their own goals.

The law of the jungle is reality. World War II was won by terror bombing civilians. It is lamentable, but reality is reality. So to say "that's not how it works" is denying reality.

“Never”? Not once in the Story of Us has any dispute between large groups of humans been resolved by anything other than a superior application of brute force? Strong claim, but I’ll run with it.

And you appear to believe this is a pretext for humans to ignore their own laws and commit atrocities, when they could choose otherwise.

It may be reality that jungle law is currently how humans almost always handle conflict at nation-state scale. Non sequitur that it should remain so.

No one is claiming that humans should be at war with, or rely on violence to assert authority over, one another.

Just because something is happening doesn't mean it's according to the law or even morally justified. We are discussing whether it is lawful, not whether it actually happened or whether they are capable of doing it with or without consequences.

I would love to live in a world where every government was democratically elected by an informed populace and never tried to assert authority outside it's borders.

> not how this works

When you say this, what exactly are you referring to?

Every arrest is a kidnapping.

That is how any legal system works, just to be clear.

That's not how the international legal system works

I mean to be fair.. the "international legal system" generally doesn't really work. It only works when governments think it works for them.

This usually means weaker (militarily/economically) countries banding together to hopefully provide some dis-incentives for strong arming.

It only works until someone calls the bluff.

what is "the international legal system"?

Unfortunately thats how the politics and economics of violence work when you are the most powerful country in the world (n.b. I am not American and think this situation is deplorable, but the legal facts and construction support Trump’s actions)

No they do not

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