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Comment by aglavine | Hacker News Reader

I am not saying USA did this for the people.

I am saying that a wide majority of Venezolans are totally happy about this and most people here aren't concerned about this at all. They just want to talk about their pet political point.

About what are the reasons behind this I (and most people commenting here) can only have educated guess, but I wouldn't discard so easily to weaken cartels as a reason. It is the third (Cuba and Nicaragua the others) Country they got to totally control and the most important and they are powerful and organized enough to keep spreading, and they are supported by China.

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"I am saying that a wide majority of Venezolans are totally happy about this"

How do you know that?

What I know anecdotically from other persons from latin america is, they are happy for Maduro to be gone, but fear of venezuela becoming a US colony.

Maduro lost elections. 8 millions of exilees can't love him. And I interact daily with exilees. You can disagree. It is hard to believe narco dictators have too much love from people anyway.

No doubt that exilees do not love him. But it was about a "wide majority" who hold that opinion. There are lots of russian refugees for example as well and they are not a fan of Putin. But back at home he still seems to enjoy majority support in a broad sense at least and I have no inside knowledge into Venezuela at all.

I don't know about Russia, maybe their economy didn't collapse as Venezuela's did. But I really don't know.

This is a bit like saying "everyone hates the regime in Cuba. I've talked with lots of Cubans in Miami and they all say that".

We are talking about 20% of the population here. A massive wave. They would be impoverished, imprisoned or dead have they not fled. Hard to believe people who stayed are happy about this.

But check the news, the web, talk to people objectively.I can be wrong, but I think the evidence is overwhelming, statistically speaking.Check for yourself.

My Venezuelan friends in the US are for the most part very happy about it. And this is not a gotcha at all, but I haven’t seen much about Venezuela in exporting fent to the US coming from anyone outside the Trump camp

I see you keep repeating this exact statement every time you are challenged and asked for actual sources. Others have pointed out that when you do provide some sources, they end up contradicting your position. If all you have is videos of people celebrating, then you can find plenty of those from Jan 6th. Does that mean that Biden lost the elections and the people of the United States approved of the attempted coup?

At this point, it's hard to imagine that you are actually arguing in good faith.

Any argument along the lines of "Venezuelans aren't happy with this" out of touch with Venezuelan culture. They do not have to die by the millions to oust a dictator that killed thousands and caused 20% to emigrate. They are happy with this.

That is what OP is saying: HN users, in order to promote their personal politics, are being concerned for a people that don't want and actively reject your concern because they are happy with the outcome.

HN is doing the equivalent of (a) denying Venezuelans appreciate this, and when that fails (b) claiming they know better than Venezuelans wrt whether this is good or bad for them.

> That is what OP is saying: HN users, in order to promote their personal politics, are being concerned for a people that don't want and actively reject your concern because they are happy with the outcome.

> (b) claiming they know better than Venezuelans wrt whether this is good or bad for them.

Well, this isn't surprising at all. At least these two points also apply to the right within the US, the HN bubble doesn't even try to understand their actual views either.

> HN is doing the equivalent of (a) denying Venezuelans appreciate this, and when that fails (b) claiming they know better than Venezuelans wrt whether this is good or bad for them.

It’s very dangerous to do the “right thing” for the wrong reasons in a complex situation. This is step 1. Does anyone have faith that the Trump admin will properly execute steps 2..N?

I would have some respect if the administration announced that it would support a provisional government led by the apparent winner of the last election in Venezuela. As such it seems to be that the administration has left the existing power structure in place and established a client/patron relationship with the leadership. This is revolting.

> It’s very dangerous to do the “right thing” for the wrong reasons in a complex situation.

Venezuelans do not care for this train of thought. No one else was going to do it, and their equivalent of Hitler has just been ousted.

Far better, from their perspective, to have the evil guy removed than endless do-nothing hand-wringing from the international community that shares your train of thought.

Democratically held elections will be run again in the country.

The "wrong reasons" can still be mutually beneficial. The US gets its oil and Venezuela gets its dictator disappeared.

It's not clear what this is really about. Trump doesn't care about the people of the US, much less Venezuela, but there seems to be a widespread consensus that Maduro was a nogoodnik who won't be missed. I have no idea what the mood on the ground really is.

As for drugs, if Trump cared about drugs, he wouldn't pardon so many drug kingpins.

Some say this has to do with asserting control over China's oil imports, but according to https://www.energypolicy.columbia.edu/sites/default/files/fi... and other sources, Venezuela barely makes it into the list of China's top 10 suppliers. So while China is indeed Venezuela's best customer, this argument doesn't seem persuasive unless I'm missing something. Venezuela's next-highest volume customer is the US itself.

I agree it is not clear.

My guess is drugs, not because Trump cares, but because they had become too powerful, controlling Venezuela, Cuba and Nicaragua, as well as a wide net of politicians.

one which concerns me is that the US cutting oil exports to Japan is the reason Pearl Harbor was bombed.

Thanks for engaging in good faith, but you know that China is selling more cars to all of Latin America than us currently, right?

Will this engagement deepen Latin American trust and respect for the US or the opposite? China makes it very clear that they do not give a shit about politics and just want to do good business, they're deepening ties that way. What's our plan? Invade random countries and tell them they better not cross us? How long does that work?

Full diaclosure: I am from Argentina. I interact daily with exilees from Venezuela. They are coworkers, they drive my Uber. They are totally happy about this.

About trust and respect, I don't see any change. Leftist will keep their mantra and Normal people will mind their business.

About the 'master plan'. No one commenting here really knows. As I mentioned to avoid criminal cartels controlling three countries and spreading it is not something I would discard. Imagine if they get nukes. Or they can start to systematicallly buy politicians in USA, as they do in Mexico.

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