US captures Venezuelan leader, Trump says
nytimes.com
nytimes.com
The fact they're doing it to install a puppet makes it worse, not better.
I think to begin with you'll have to actually present the argument as to why Maduro should be considered the legitimate leader of Venezuela.
Maduro was the legitimate government, American wishful thinking is just another affront to Venezuelan sovereignty.
Really? I thought the US just arrested Maduro. To me, that seems like something that would matter.
>Maduro was the legitimate government, American wishful thinking is just another affront to Venezuelan sovereignty.
Can you actually try to explain why? Can you explain why a reasonable person looking at this from the outside should arrive at the conclusion that "Maduro was the legitimate government"?
The same however is not true of Maduro, where "Maduro did not actually get sufficient votes to win the latest election" is a pretty commonly held view backed by evidence. You might reasonably doubt the veracity of that evidence, but directly comparing Maduro's position with that of Trump is simply ridiculous.
Yes, because that in no way invalidates the election results.
I really don't see how this is in any way comparable or relevant.
> and not a puppet placed by Putin.
Trump being a puppet placed by Putin would not invalidate his presidency.
You can't arrest a foreign head of state in a country where you have no jurisdiction. You can only kidnap them, as a rogue state.
Do you think Iran should be able to arrest Trump because they don't consider him legitimate?
International law isn't "I don't like you, so I will 'arrest' you". It's rules that all countries are bound by and that the US is breaking - making themselves a rogue state on the same level as North Korea.
> Can you actually try to explain why? Can you explain why a reasonable person looking at this from the outside should arrive at the conclusion that "Maduro was the legitimate government"?
Because he led Venezuela, that's what makes him the government of Venezuela. Any judgement on legitimacy is reserved to the Venezuelan people, not far-right oligarchs (who the US government considers the "legitimate government" since they'll make for nice puppets as they rob the place), not foreign dictators like Trump.
The whole point is that the Venezuelan people have supposedly voted for Edmundo González and not Maduro.
My point all along has been that in the end this probably depends entirely on who you believe about the elections.
I think first your evidence for "they were invited in by what they consider to be representatives of the legitimate government".
Also, to be fair, the comment I was responding to earlier referred to the Venezuelan opposition as a US puppet. I think that effectively concedes this point anyway.
It seems more than reasonable to assume that they were in fact invited in.
... and is not the statement in question.
The statement in question is your "they were invited in".
And when I look for evidence of that, I find only counter-evidence e.g.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crmlz7r0zrxo Trump also said he had not spoken to Venezuela's opposition leader María Corina Machado, who he characterised as having neither the support nor the respect within Venezuela to become its leader.
>... and is not the statement in question.
>The statement in question is your "they were invited in".
I think "they were invited in" inherently follows from the "lobbying for foreign intervention".
Unless you have some alternative explanation as to what the Venezuelan opposition could possibly have been pursuing during their extensive international lobbying tours, "they were invited in" is the simplest and most reasonable hypothesis.
The alternative is that they were just lobbying for fun and didn't actually hope to achieve any change in Venezuela, but that seems kind of silly.
A regime change putting them in power?
Instead they got Trump in power... claims Trump.
So any country could just assign some people as the legitimate government and do anything in any other country.
https://i.imgur.com/5DL7GtJ.png
But this post, with 1.5x the upvotes, is nowhere on the front page.
WE ARE IN A FILTER BUBBLE.