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Comment by suspended_state | Hacker News Reader

> The problem with that argument is that the reports don’t necessarily come from the organization for whom it’s an issue.

You can already say that for the majority of the bugs being fixed, and I think that's one of the points: tagging certain bugs as exploitable make it seem like the others aren't. More generally, someone's minor issue might be a major one for someone else, and not just in security. It could be anything the user cares about, data, hardware, energy, time.

Perhaps the real problem is that security is just a view on the bigger picture. Security is important, I'm not saying the opposite, but if it's only an aspect of development, why focus on it in the development logs? Shouldn't it be instead discussed on its own, in separate documents, mailing lists, etc by those who are primarily concerned by it?

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Are memory leak fixes described as memory leak fixes in the logs or intentionally omitted as such? Are kernel panics or hangs not described in the commit logs even if they only happen in weird scenarios? Thats clearly not what’s happening meaning security bugs are still differently recorded and described through omission.

However you look at it, the only real justification that’s consistent with observed behaviors is that pointing out security vulnerabilities in the development log helps attackers. That explains why known exploitable bugs are reported differently before hand and described differently after the fact in the commit logs. That wouldn’t happen if “a bug is a bug” was actually a genuinely held position.

> However you look at it, the only real justification that’s consistent with observed behaviors is that pointing out security vulnerabilities in the development log helps attackers.

And on top of your other concerns, this quoted bit smells an awful lot like 'security through obscurity' to me.

The people we really need to worry about today, state actors, have plenty of manpower available to watch every commit going into the kernel and figure out which ones are correcting an exploitable flaw, and how; and they also have the resources to move quickly to take advantage of them before downstream distros finish their testing and integration of upstream changes into their kernels, and before responsible organizations finish their regression testing and let the kernel updates into their deployments -- especially given that the distro maintainers and sysadmins aren't going to be moving with any urgency to get a kernel containing a security-critical fix rolled out quickly because they don't know they need to because *nobody's warned them*.

Obscuring how fixes are impactful to security isn't a step to avoid helping the bad guys, because they don't need the help. Being loud and clear about them is to help the good guys; to allow them to fast-track (or even skip) testing and deploying fixes or to take more immediate mitigations like disabling vulnerable features pending tested fix rollouts.

There’s lot of different kinds of bad guys. This probably has marginal impact on state actors. But organized crime or malicious individuals? Probably raises the bar a little bit and part of defense in depth is employing a collection of mitigations to increase the cost of creating an exploit.

There are channels in place to discuss security matters in open source. I am by no mean an expert nor very interested in that topic, but just searching a bit led me to

https://oss-security.openwall.org/wiki/mailing-lists

The good guys are certainly monitoring these channels already.

> Are memory leak fixes described as memory leak fixes in the logs or intentionally omitted as such? Are kernel panics or hangs not described in the commit logs even if they only happen in weird scenarios?

I don't know nor follow kernel development well enough to answer these questions. My point was just a general reflection, and admittedly a reformulation of Linus's argument, which I think is genuinely valid.

If you allow me, one could frame this differently though: is the memory leak the symptom or the problem?

No one is listing the vast number of possible symptoms a security vulnerability could be causing.

Indeed nobody does that, because it would just be pointless, it doesn't expose the real issue. Is a security vulnerability a symptom, or the real issue though? Doesn't it depends on the purpose of the code containing the bug?

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