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Comment by oersted | Hacker News Reader

I agree, but the video at the bottom helped.

You can draw a line between your location and the north pole, they talk about three variants:

- Magnetic North: Shortest surface line to the magnetic north pole (simply in the direction of the compass at your location).

- True North: Shortest surface line from where you are to the geographic north pole (based on the rotation axis?).

- Grid North: A line to the same geographic north pole, but aligned to the longitude lines (EDIT: for a local UK grid standard, slightly different from the global one). I didn't fully understand the subtleties of why it's different from True North, something about the projection. Not sure if it's exactly to the same north pole, the rotation axis might also change slightly and I assume that the grid north point is fixed by convention?

They are saying that there's a particular point where all three lines point in the same direction, and that point is moving.

View on HN

In the UK there's a standard grid used for local-only mapping: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordnance_Survey_National_Grid

It's a transverse mercator projection rather than a mercator as you might often see because it minimises distortion over the UK as a whole which means that the distortion is as you move away from the meridian, rather than as you move away from the equator (with a regular mercator I think all points have the grid aligned with true North)

This grid is setup such that it's origin is not on the prime meridian (at Greenwich), but 2deg west so only points on the line 2deg west are aligned with true north.

One of the advantages of doing this seemingly weird projection is that you can treat "local" maps (for some definition of local) as flat rectangular grids without introducing a lot of errors: drawing straight lines between two points, measuring the distance / angle between them, etc., just by dealing with a flat piece of paper. VERY convenient, but the farther you are from the center of the projection, the higher the errors that are introduced.

In short, you can treat the local geometry as Euclidean.

Or, to put it simply, the shape of the Earth can be considered flat for local mapping purposes.

If grid north and true north are the same everywhere, it would be proof the entire Earth is flat.

If your planet is tiny, it's very easy to figure out that it's a ball, a child can see it with their bare eyes. The planets in "Outer Wilds" are like that.

Because this planet is larger, smart people trying to figure out how it works used simple tools and measurements to conclude that it's a ball, we know that Greeks and Romans figured this out, I'm sure other civilisations did too.

Greg Egan's "Incandescence" has people who live somewhere where you can discover, in this same way, General Relativity. There's a small but noticeable difference between the simple linear results we'd see for Newtonian physics in rudimentary experiments and what they can observe and they figure out why. Since they have no context for what it means to observe this and have (to their memory) always lived somewhere this happens, they aren't terrified by this discovery any more than we were terrified to discover how our Sun must work - so much hydrogen in one place that it undergoes spontaneous nuclear fusion which releases so much energy that we can easily see by it even after it is no longer directly visible, OK cool, I still need groceries.

It’s easy to see that the surface of the earth is a ball - or at least a curved surface - simply by going to the seaside and watching ships dip below the horizon before they fully disappear.

The ancient Greeks proved it was a ball and measured the dimensions of it using mathematics, but the concept of a curved earth was known to seafarers long before that.

> Magnetic North: Shortest surface line to the magnetic north pole (simply in the direction of the compass at your location).

Magnetic North is the local horizontal direction of the magnetic field. But that doesn't generally coincide with the shortest surface line (geodesic) to the magnetic north pole (however you define that - there's several).

If you followed your compass you could end up in a loop without reaching the magnetic north pole.

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