Is the windows11 mandate to upgrade hardware akin to older corp's toxic messes? | Hacker News Reader

Is the windows11 mandate to upgrade hardware akin to older corp's toxic messes?

6 pointssrevenant4 comments

Just a thought. So as I understand it, largely the only reason for the "your computer can't run windows 11" thing is because of TPM 2.0 as a minimum. This creates a vast array of unusable computers that are stuck on TPM 1.x, even fully functional.

In the end it feels like an artificial requirement. Sure it's packaged in the trappings of fear and uncertainty (stronger crypto is good right?) But the crypto there is /good enough/ for most CONSUMER use cases. /FORCING/ them to throw away perfectly good computers feels... wrong.

On the level of "love canal" wrong, for the amount of e-waste it is effectively driving.

Sure the hardware vendors love it. And it's all spun up as "we're keeping you secure and better."

But let's be honest. I feel like the real reason for the push is better DRM, in the end. They keep the IP holders happy by making it harder for consumers to rip video.

I might be completely wrong, dunno :) It just seems very suspect.

I wouldn't know where to even begin, but has anybody calculated the environmental impact (if any?) of forcing obsolescence on computers largely to the benefit of the IP holders?

There's going to be a constant rate of ewaste as it is. Has that gone up thanks to windows 11 and the various pushes to retire "old" hardware that is still just fine?

I know Linux has seen a big bump of desktop users (relatively speaking) thanks to this.

Just makes me wonder, but I'm not in the know to calculate and figure this stuff out.

I work at an e-waste recycling company, and I have some thoughts:

I've been seeing some interesting hardware that I wouldn't have otherwise. I have a Microsoft Surface Hub sitting around that I've yet to list. It's a 55" 1080p touchscreen videoconferencing monitor. It has an embedded PC (4th gen i5), but (if I recall) it was likely bricked several months ago by a firmware update that deleted the certificates it used to verify its bootloader.

We don't have a Windows distribution license (and little willingness to provide support), so we can't install Windows on anything we sell. We usually install Linux, and it's cool to think we're helping to move the needle on Linux usage.

If we can't sell something, we take the RAM and drives, because the AI rush drove up prices for those. The scrap gets sold to refiners who shred it and dissolve in acid to extract materials, like you would with mined ore.

Microsoft has been fighting local accounts on Windows 11 very hard so MDM locking works more often. It locks a PC to a corporate domain, so when you install Windows, it forces you to login to a specific domain, and it won't let you get around it. Many of these machines we get are quite valuable otherwise (e.g. Dell Precision laptops with good GPUs), but we have buyers that will pay good money for them, even when MDM locked.

> Sure the hardware vendors love it. And it's all spun up as "we're keeping you secure and better."

Only for Microsoft to keep pushing AI harder and harder, and at some point your data will be stolen to train the model. (If they can't, they can unilaterally update the terms of use to allow it.) At least you can ask it for your credit card number.

E-waste is a fake problem.

Computers never received security updates for 20 years so this isn't really a new situation. I'm not sure why people are making a bigger deal out of this one.

https://ewastemonitor.info/the-global-e-waste-monitor-2024/

> A record 62 million tonnes (Mt) of e-waste was produced in 2022, Up 82% from 2010; On track to rise another 32%, to 82 million tonnes, in 2030; Billions of dollars worth of strategically-valuable resources squandered, dumped; Just 1% of rare earth element demand is met by e-waste recycling

> The 62 million tonnes of e-waste generated in 2022 would fill 1.55 million 40-tonne trucks, roughly enough trucks to form a bumper-to-bumper line encircling the equator, according to the report from ITU and UNITAR.

> Meanwhile, less than one quarter (22.3%) of the year’s e-waste mass was documented as having been properly collected and recycled in 2022, leaving US$ 62 billion worth of recoverable natural resources unaccounted for and increasing pollution risks to communities worldwide.

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/electronic-...

> Electronic waste (e-waste) is one of the fastest growing solid waste streams in the world (1). Less than a quarter of e-waste produced globally in 2022 was known to be formally recycled; however, e-waste streams contain valuable and finite resources that can be reused if they are recycled appropriately. E-waste has therefore become an important income stream for individuals and some communities. People living in low- and middle-income (LMICs), particularly children, face the most significant risks from e-waste due to lack of appropriate regulations and enforcement, recycling infrastructure and training. Despite international regulations targeting the control of the transport of e-waste from one country to another, its transboundary movement to LMICs continues, frequently illegally. E-waste is considered hazardous waste as it contains toxic materials and can produce toxic chemicals when recycled inappropriately. Many of these toxic materials are known or suspected to cause harm to human health, and several are included in the 10 chemicals of public health concern, including dioxins, lead and mercury. Inferior recycling of e-waste is a threat to public health and safety.

“Fake problem”

> E-waste is a fake problem.

There has never been a larger volume of electronics out there. They wear down, break, and get destroyed. They contain materials that are environmental hazards.

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