I haven't looked at Ruby for a long time. I've moved away due to the lack of typing. Any degree of typing would be helpful. Does it support typing yet?
Out of all three I think Shopify have the highest possibilities. There may be additional usefulness interms of ZJIT.
I like it, it deserves attention, especially for those who are seeking for typed Ruby. With this, you can finally experience it, and the syntax feels more ergonomic than with Sorbet.
Adding static typing to a dynamic language mostly gives you the disadvantages of both, without a lot of benefits. It's better to stick to languages that were designed with static types from the start.
I love programming in Ruby, having to worry about type annotations and the additional constraints that come with them would take a lot of the fun out of that.
Can you elaborate? I don't share this experience, and I'm interested in bringing static typing to a language without static typing, so I'd like to understand. In new Python and JavaScript codebases, optional typing has had clear benefits for refactoring and correctness and low costs for me. Legacy codebases can be different.
I've been using Ruby for more than 10 years now, and I only started using LSP recently. To me it's a nice addition but I can live without it. Type is just one of the tools, not the only one imo. Not trying to sound negative but type is becoming more like a hammer analogy nowadays.
And it's not limited to Ruby. Javascript, Python, all similar languages. Not everyone is a fan of type. We won't reach consensus imo and that's ok.
In our codebase that uses Sorbet I find this is really only true at function boundaries. Within a function it is pretty rare that anything needs to be spelled out with inline annotations to satisfy the compiler.
If only private methods would be allowed not having typing at all (with a promise of not being used in subclasses, for example), and Sorbet would be used mostly on the public surface of classes, it'd be much more tolerable for me.
In other words, I found that the resulting code often looked more like Java but with weaker guarantees about types and much worse performance.
As an engineer at a firm doing heavy duty data pipelines and internal tooling in a Sorbet-ified codebase, I disagree pretty strongly. While Sorbet type signatures are never going to win a syntax beauty contest, they are more than worth their weight in the way I can rely on them to catch typing and nilability goofs, and often serve as helpful documentation. Meanwhile, the internal code of most functions I write still looks like straight Ruby, fluent and uncluttered.
A good CI story that leans on tapioca was crucial here for us.
Of course RBS makes this more explicit/verbose (in a good way), and ruby-lsp helps bring it all together in the editor.
I feel like I'm missing nothing compared to Python with type hints and pyright. Of course neither compare to an actually typed language at runtime, but at least as far as developer experience, it's pretty alright. I'm relatively new to Ruby but I went from really hating it to being pretty much fine with it for these reasons.
There's a pretty battle tested tool to define inline types as ruby syntax and type check both statically and at runtime[0].
It's still not a particularly nice situation imvho compared to typescript or python, but there's been some movement, and there's a newsletter that follows static typing developments [1] which may give you some insights.
Really rough around the edges, lots of stubs have to be added because support for gems is lackluster but whatever Sorbet generates are hit or miss etc. So you end up writing a lot of hard to understand annotations and/or people get frustrated and try to skip them etc.
Overall a very bad DX, compared to even typed Python. Don’t even want to compare it to TS because then it becomes really unfair.
For generating (with LLMs) API clients and CLIs it’s especially useful—define the shape once, get validation at ingress/egress for free.
Maybe momentum is happening in new projects rather than retrofits? [0] https://oss.vicente.services/dspy.rb
IMHO if we wanted to write types in our programming language we would not have chosen Ruby for our programming tasks. We would have chosen one of the zillion of other languages. There were a lot of them when Ruby got traction about 20 years ago and many other languages have been created after then. It's not surprising that one of the main proponent of typing in Ruby is Shopify, because their path away from Ruby is very costly.
In my case one of the reasons I invested in Ruby is precisely because I did not have to write types.
Does it make Ruby slower than Java, my main language in 2005? Yes.
Is it fast enough for my customers? Yes. Most of them decided to use Ruby, then hired me.
Do I have to write unit tests to check for types? I don't.
Occasional problems that static types would have prevented to happen? Once or twice per year. Overall that's a good tradeoff because pleasing the type checker for non trivial types can be a time consuming task and some errors happen at runtime anyway, when the real world hits with its data a carefully type checked code base or a carelessly dynamic typed one. Think of an API suddenly returning a bad JSON, maybe an HTML 500 page. Static or dynamic typing, both won't help with that.
Python is one of the Lingua Franca of scientific, data, and most importantly, ai communities
Has much bigger community than Ruby
Has much, much better tooling story
Has much better gradual typing story
Isn’t THAT much slower than Ruby, there are far more attractive targets than Ruby if you care about performance
Bah, humbug!
You mean it's the most used frontend for all the C and C++ libraries that are used for scientific computing, data and AI.
Some of us don't work for others and just program what we want.
Speed isn’t why people choose Python.
It’s not like Ruby becomes Haskell. But it does provide a good deal of additional saftey, less testing, LSP integration is good, and it is gradual.
There is a performance hit but we found it to be quite small and not an issue.
But there are area of our application that use Grape and it is too meta for Sorbet so we don’t try and use it there.
I’ve been using this pattern for API clients[0] and CLIs[1]: define the shape once with Sorbet, get automatic JSON Schema generation when you need it.
[0] https://github.com/vicentereig/exa-ruby [1] https://github.com/vicentereig/lf-cli
Well, maybe next time.
I think most people who cared just moved to typescript.