It might not feel like that on the ground, the leash has been getting looser, but the leash is still 100% there.
Don't make the childish mistake of thinking China is just USA 2.0
So like even now although I can trust chinese models, who knows for how long their private discussions have been happening and for how long chinese govt has been using that leash privately and for chatbots like glm 4.7 and similar.
I am not sure why china would actively come out and say they are enforcing tough rules tho, doesn't make much sense for a country who loves being private.
But this is because they are an extremely large company but on the other hand, there can be smaller companies in america who can actually be independent yet the same just isn't possible in china.
Also even with things like apple, they don't really unlock computers for the govt.
https://www.apple.com/customer-letter/answers/
So in a way, yeah. Not sure about the current oligarchy / kiss-the-ring type of deal they might have but that seems a problem of america's authoritarianism and not the fault of the democratic model itself
Now ask Jack Ma about the time he even criticized regulations, much less defied them...
They didn't win, the phone was broken into with the help of a third party (so ultimately Apple actually did give the government a backdoor, unofficially) so the court case was mooted. Apple never actually defied the US legal system.
> Now ask Jack Ma
Ask ABC about their FCC license when they publish speech critical of the regime[1].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_Jimmy_Kimmel_Liv...!
Not sure how finding an exploit in software means the company is compliant. Microsoft would be criminally liable for untold damage if that was the case.
Kimmels bosses were kissing the ring. But it's unlikely there was real threat. The courts have been shooting Trumps authoritarian dreams down left and right.
China has no (legitimate) courts.
Jack Ma was criticizing China's strategy for minimizing risk in its financial system, essentially arguing for more risk that could harm ordinary people to benefit his company, Ant Group. Unlike the US, much of the financial sector in China is state-owned, so it makes sense that they would follow the state's line. The worst that happened to him is that he had to step away from roles in his companies and stay out of public image, which is very different to the image of being disappeared.
Both of their companies are under their respective state's control. The only difference seems to be what you're willing to recognize as control, since I'm much more interested in what happens when push comes to shove.
If Xi tells Xiaomi to put his face one every xiaomi phone, tomorrow everyone with a xiaomi phone wakes up to Xi.
China is an authoritarian regime, through and through.
America is an authoritarian regime if you just read reddit comments all day.
You must really have a distorted view on society to believe that companies can be free from their respective governments on the basis of freedom of speech, which is largely a western concept.
It's only in chronically online communities that you run into these "American is on par with China" types.
I can agree with your whole comment except for the fact that we are comparing an if / future statement when push comes to shove for america since although one can predict about national security or espionage act or anything, Nobody can be 100% certain if apple would have to have follow it
Now compare this with China where states own the financial sector and have a share in every company so there is a 100% certainty there that when push comes to shove that china is a more likelier culprit than america
I feel like everything breaks down when push comes to shove though because I feel like Europe which has its flaws is still more stable (most parts of it) in terms of blatant corruption and authoritarianism than the trends displayed by america right now but if push comes to shove, I feel like Europe could have harsher rules than maybe even America considering America's "freedom" sentiment
The question however which I wish to ask is that what are some countries which you think are good if push comes to shove. I suppose switzerland but its gotten too good of a reputation that its become infamous for bad stuff but I am interested what other countries would you list.
This is part of why I really don't think authoritarianism is relevant to whether or not China will lead in AI. There are much better metrics for this, like the amount of resources poured into research vs. applications, or the kind of research being done (open source, more than just LLMs etc.).
This is kind of a nonsensical statement. Every US company is also de facto under US control, too. They're all subject to US laws. Beyond that, as demonstrated by the recent inauguration, the US oligarchs are demonstrably political pawns who regularly make pilgrimages to the White House to offer token gifts and clap like trained seals.
You can't hold up the US as some kind of beacon of freedom from state control anymore, for the past year all the major industrial leaders have been openly prostrating themselves to the state.
100% agree. I never said that America is a beacon of freedom. To be honest, its Europe for me which still has overall more freedom and less blatant corruption than America's blatant corruption right now
I was just merely stating that these are on a scale though. European freedom (think proton or similar,yes I know proton's swiss but still) > America's freedom > China's freedom
Its just that in my parent comment I had mentioned America models solely because they are still better than China's in terms of freedom.
Europe already got mistral but an European SOTA model does feel like it would have advantages.
China has no such thing. It's just the will of Xi.
Again: a nonsensical statement, China also has a constitution and courts, Chinese companies prevail in lawsuits against their government[1][2].
Your turn, name some top-tier US companies which have gone against the party and the regime in the past year.
[1] https://www.ft.com/content/1cddb8cc-a7ac-11e4-8e78-00144feab...
But even that aside, the emperor still has ultimate say in the final ruling from whatever court. Please show me the stories of courts shooting down Xi. I can show you tons shooting down Trump...
The damage internet discourse is doing between us all frankly seems the worst threat. Look at the H1B discourse. We hate a shitty American policy abused by AMERICAN companies, yet it gets turned against humans who happen to be from India. We gotta not do that. We gotta not let things between China and us get so out of control. This is going to sound America hating but look at how people see us Americans, it's not good. But we know we aren't as bad as they say. China has done things anathema to me. But the US has too. We have to work outside that. We have to. We have to. We have to get out of this feedback loop. We have to be adults and not play this emotional ping-pong.
This is exactly what I imagine and it's as chilling as anything ICE does openly or US insurance companies do to keep their bottom line moving up, because the ramifications are realized in silence. The silence is ensured by the same "regular" people in China.
> We have to be adults and not play this emotional ping-pong.
Your message does inspire me but I feel as if there rather isn't anything which can be done individually about the situations of both china and america or any country for that matter.
To me its shocking as how much can change if we as a community do something compared to something individual but also the fact that an individual must still try even if people aren't backing them up to stand for their morals and how effortless it can be for a community if they act reasonable and then listen to individuals who genuinely want to help
There is both hope and sadness in this fact depending on the faith they have in humans in general.
I think humans are mostly really good people overall but we all have contrary opinions which try pushing things so radically different that we cancel each other out or negate
I genuinely have hope that if the system can grow, humans can grow too. I have no doubt in the faith I have on an individual level with people but I have doubt in my faith at mass level
Like I wasn't saying that those chinese individuals in companies would be loyal to the chinese party beyond everything but rather I feel like at mass/combine it to something which happens to every company basically and then I have doubts of faith in the system (and for good measure)
I am genuinely curious but when you mention we have to be adults, what exactly does that really mean at a mass scale. Like (assuming) if I gave you the ability to say one exact message to everybody at the same time, what would the message be for the benefit of mankind itself and so we stop infighting itself perhaps too?
I am super curious to know about that