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Comment by tkz1312 | Hacker News Reader

Not sure why self proclaimed "hackers" seem to be in love with walled gardens and corporate control :)

That's the thing, you don't have to be! You are welcome to use another phone more to your liking.

You obviously know that it's not just the phone, it's the apps we can use on them. There are only two companies and they both control the market.

There are far more than two companies selling phones.

And yet if you want applications to work on your phone, many times you'll need approval from either Apple or Google. Google can effectively ban manufacturers (like they did with Huawei) from using "Android" by blacklisting them from Play Services. Apple owns the entire ecosystem and prevents third-party from having access to the same feature set.

Something tells me that the thing about Google not allowing custom Andriod operating systems to install apps is not quite true. I don't know about this specific topic yet, but I bet that if I look into it, I'll find out that there's nuance here that isn't been correctly portrayed by your comment.

You need to allow Play the play store and it's services and those will wall you in. Many times discussed here: many banking, gov, health apps around the world are banning anything not blessed by Google or Apple and installing on a non blessed system will not allow you to use them. My bank allows a modern and supported android or ios phone or a Windows laptop with a biometric card reader. Pretty much locked in and all banks are following.

Look up Play Integrity, it's the remote attestation framework Google uses to ensure apps only run on Google-blessed hardware and software. Apps that use it verify that both hardware and software are unmodified and blessed by Google before apps are allowed to run. Banking apps use it, the fucking McDonald's app uses it, public transit pass apps use it, etc.

If you want to use your phone like normal people do in 2025, and not relegate yourself to being a second-class citizen when it comes to simple things like paying for stuff, riding the subway, etc, your phone is either an iPhone or something that plays nicely with Play Services.

And that's just the remote attestation side. Many apps rely on Play Services themselves, and without access to them, will not work. Google gates access to Play Services through contracts, it is not open source or part of Android.

There are 2 phone operating systems and both make things user hostile. So no, there is not a real choice to use another phone.

And it's not only about users. Headphone manufactures too. Their headphones need to support both iOS and Android phones.

I do! I've been an Android stalwart since I first got a smartphone over a decade ago.

Problem is, every year Android announces some new stupid-ass restriction or anti-feature that significantly degrades the capability of application software on the OS in the name of security. In other words, Google keeps trying to turn my Android into a shittier iPhone. It's gotten so bad that they recently floated the idea of mandatory notarization, and only marginally backed down after shittons of pushback.

Every time the EU passes a law intended to stop obviously monopolistic shit like this from happening, a certain brand of Ayn Randroid Apple fan comes out of the woodwork to decry the EU "forcing Apple to give away its technology for free". Which is absolutely bullshit, on two counts. First off, Apple sold its technology to us when we bought the phone. That's the whole deal with Apple: the OS is a bundle with the hardware. Ergo, them going to app developers and asking for a cut is double billing. Second off, and more importantly, the only reason why you even need the EU DMA is because Apple won't let you ship an app that is capable of doing what their own first-party daemons do.

I'm going to be honest. Every time I read people like you saying "you can just buy an Android if you want that", I get the same vibes as I do when I see, say, old boomers showing up at town hall meetings to oppose the building of the IBX[0]. You're just App NIMBYs, carrying water for a tech industry trying to turn every computer into the tech equivalent of a car-dependent suburb with restrictive zoning laws.

Now if only the EU could pass a law saying Apple needs to ship an Android app that provides all the missing functionality of AirPods on that platform. At the very least, I should be able to update the firmware on them.

[0] Inter-Borough eXpress - A proposed circumferential NYC subway line connecting Brooklyn and Queens.

I was a diehard Android user as the memory of Apple locking down things like the filesystem among other things really sowed some bad blood for me. But these days it really seems like they're kind of converging and Apple's privacy features are quite appealing...

> Every time the EU passes a law intended to stop obviously monopolistic shit like this from happening, a certain brand of Ayn Randroid Apple fan comes out of the woodwork

These companies spend billions in dollars on PR agencies and lobbying. They spend the most on lobbying the EU out of everyone. The likelihood that zero of that goes towards writing such comments in places like HN is minuscule. And then there's the legions of actual Googlers and Applers here and elsewhere who have drunk the koolaid.

If you're alleging that I replied to an Apple-affiliated troll farm employee, the possibility is there. But Apple is particularly unique in that it has a certain brand of customer that stuck it out during the days where System 7 was being absolutely clowned on by Windows 95 and NT. These hardcore Apple customers treat the company as if they are members of a persecuted minority religion. In other words, Apple doesn't need a troll farm, they have their fans to do it.

(Which, ironically, was also the strategy of Epic's entire Fortnite stunt...)

I am alleging that specifically because it's always the same old dumb anti-EU narrative that they're pushing. If it was something else, then sure. Those hardcore customers you're talking about have existed similarly for other tech brands like Microsoft or Sony - or even more laughably, Intel or Nvidia - they're just less active in these spaces, and even they can't really excuse Windows 11 and its idiocy.

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