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Comment by vrosas | Hacker News Reader

The perils of the capitalist system man. For what’s its worth, I left adtech many moons ago specifically because it is a horrifyingly depressing industry and very very not fun to talk about at parties.

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I'm glad you got out, but given your vantage point what would you say to those who feel pressured to do these types of jobs? Would you say more "it isn't worth it" or "if you have to... but get out as fast as possible" or something else?

Money pays the bills. It’s probably not deeply rooted.

Forgive me, but I'd actually like to hear vrosas's response or someone else with a similar background. I appreciate you trying to answer my question and help try to make me informed, but I don't want to hear speculation, especially the rather obvious ones. That's not helping, it just adds more noise to the conversation and discourages a response by them. We all know money pays the bills, no one needs to hear that. But hey, if that's what they say, then you'll be proven right. So let's wait and find out. I really do want to understand their mentality. I hope you do too because how else do we break the cycle?

I've talked to a lot of engineers building DRM technology, and most of them are just a combination of swept up in the fun of the challenge, and also deeply bought into the idea of protecting intellectual property. I would say probably 90% don't see any philosophical issues with what they're building at all. If you can convince them of that, quite a few of them would probably try to get out, but it's quite an uphill battle. I forget who said the quote and the exact words, but something along the lines of it's very difficult to disabuse somebody of a belief when their livelihood depends on believing it.

As someone who was in an industry that I later discovered was doing things I wasn't personally ethically okay with, I would advise them to do similar to me. Start looking for a new gig and just get out as soon as you can.

Unfortunately as an individual there just isn't much you can do. There will always be someone willing to do the job that you aren't willing to do. Just get out and find something you can sleep at night doing

This is incredibly close-minded of you. It’s important creative work can be compensated for. This debate was tired in 2002. You should at least understand the other side instead of treating it with the moral simplicity that’d apply equally to Nazis.

Heh, I love that you accuse me of being closed-minded on this, while simultaneously claiming that nothing relevant has happened since 2002 because you're "tired" of the debate.

I'd also recommend you actually find out about somebody's background before making such a giant assumption about how much they know about the issue.

And if you don't think DRM has been used to abuse legitimate users, you yourself have a significant amount of understanding the other side to do. A great start might be just reviewing some of the anecdotes in this comment section or any of the other many threads that continually happen on HN. It turns out that DRM technology has actually changed a bit in the last 24 years, and it's not just about "protecting" IP

If I read a full biography of you, does it change anything about my perception that you're close-minded for saying working on DRM is obviously 100% morally wrong and it's beyond you to understand why anyone would?

My man’s not wrong. Adtech has some seriously cool engineering problems and scale. It’s its own form of high frequency trading mixed with everyone you’d imagine from a modern day Mad Men. Plus tons and tons and tons of money.

But that's different from money pays by bills. And I think it's also important to recognize that there can be some fun in this due to the challenge.

I started on another side of engineering and I get that. Building rockets is exciting and fun. But while you build those things it's easy to forget you're building something much more destructive.

It’s not different. I take jobs to pay bills and in the selection process pick opportunities that offer career growth and interesting problems. Money pays the bills.

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