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Comment by Avalaxy | Hacker News Reader

I'm sorry, but I'm really not interested in yet ANOTHER todo app/website/whatever. Please come up with something innovating. Creating the millionth TODO app and calling it a 'startup' is just not going to work. We have enough of these things. There's no need for it, and it certainly shouldn't be called a business, because it simply isn't.

(the same goes for the thousands of project management apps, hour tracker apps, wannabe social networks, twitter sentiment tools, accounting apps, photo filter apps, a/b testing websites, etc.).

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IvnptQJ__U

In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read.

But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. But there are times when a critic truly risks something, and that is in the discovery and defense of the new.

The world is often unkind to new talents, new creations. The new needs friends.

Last night, I experienced something new; an extraordinary meal from a singularly unexpected source. To say that both the meal and its maker have challenged my preconceptions about fine cooking, is a gross understatement. They have rocked me to my core. In the past, I have made no secret of my disdain for Chef Gusteau's famous motto, 'Anyone can cook.'

But I realize — only now do I truly understand what he meant. Not everyone can become a great artist, but a great artist can come from anywhere. It is difficult to imagine more humble origins than those of the genius now cooking at Gusteau's, who is, in this critic's opinion, nothing less than the finest chef in France. I will be returning to Gusteau's soon, hungry for more."

-- Anton Ego, "Ratatouille"

Yeah, that was rude AND wrong. You have NO idea what the OPs goals are with this. It could be his first independent project ever just to get his feet wet. Even if he DOES have great ambitions for it, you don't need to be terribly innovative to win.

Build something that attacks a clear need, has clear competition, and comes at the market from a slightly different angle and you can oftentimes build a huge business just by executing well. Trello? Asana? Sprint.ly? All doing REALLY WELL. I know a couple of guys who built "twitter sentiment tools" recently. They launched into a crowded market of people doing the same thing. They're now nearly 30 people strong and are doing millions in revenue per year. In big and/or growing markets, there's nearly infinite opportunity.

I agree.

The reason I started this was because given all those tools out there, I had a team member send out an email with tasks for a project and the thread quickly exploded. This is how we were managing out tasks for that project. I'd be replying to the email with my updated tasks, and boom, I get another one that's already more up-to-date than the one I'm replying to. That's the itch I needed scratched.

I was going to propose Basecamp, etc. but I didn't think management would buy in because of the perceived complexity of signing up everyone, etc.

unnecessarily negative, belittling, and mean-spirited. has putting this person down made you feel better about yourself?

I really don't think it's "unnecessarily negative". I see so many people wasting their time by working on 'ideas' that aren't even real ideas. He could have used his time better doing something actually useful. A lot of programmers have a big tunnel vision. They want to create a 'startup' no matter what, and then they come up with a 'TODO list' and waste many months of their valuable time working on it, just to be disappointed when they realize there is no need for it.

You can be very kind and tell him that the idea is awesome and that he will become a millionaire, but please be a bit more realistic and just tell him the truth.

> A lot of programmers have a big tunnel vision. They want to create a 'startup' no matter what

But it is not the programmer's fault. Many incubators preach that everyone must have an ideia, no matter how awful it is.

No, it's still a developer's fault. Just because people say to do something doesn't mean to do it. Likewise, many other parties preach something different.

Building out a full app then testing out a hypothesis was probably a waste of time. Putting up a landing page and promoting out to his network would likely have yielded very similar results - people saying "we don't need another todo list". faster, and cheaper.

the guy asked for feedback on his product, not his life decisions. to make the leap is presumptuous, pompous, and, yes, unnecessarily negative. there are polite ways of giving negative feedback, for instance you might have said: "hey thanks for posting. looks like you've done a good job putting it together. i worry that there isn't a market for it, though, given all the competition that currently exists and people's general inability to monetize these sorts of products. maybe use this as a jumping off point for something else?" instead, your original comment is full of vitriol and, in one fell swoop, you've managed to put down the creators of "thousands of project management apps, hour tracker apps, wannabe social networks, twitter sentiment tools, accounting apps, photo filter apps, a/b testing websites, etc." you, sir, must surely be without flaw to make such broad and sweeping generalizations about your fellow community members.

it continues to amaze how certain members of this community cannot recognize the vast chasm of constructive criticism that lies between the extremes of '[telling] him that the idea is awesome and that he will become a millionaire' and telling him he has wasted his time working on an idea that "isn't even a real idea" (and we won't even address the absurdity of that last sentence...).

To be fair, the title of the post does say "startup" which implies the goal is to make money, and the poster asks for advice on revenue streams. If he had said, "Check out my weekend project, enjoy!" that's one thing, but calling the eleventy-billionth todo list app a startup is going to get replies like the OP.

Personally I agree in sentiment, if not in tone, with the OP; there's a trillion todo list apps, finding one the poster could have worked with would have freed valuable time for developing something else. Unless of course this was an app done for learning purposes, but the poster doesn't say that.

I recognize you don't think it was unnecessarily negative, you're the one who posted it. I don't know that we needed that clarified.

What you mean here is "I don't think I would use this" - you don't have to tell him his idea is awesome, but the way you put it made it seem like you are the gatekeeper of awesome and this does not qualify, so go ahead start over and move on.

As OP made clear, he's scratching an itch and finds things like basecamp overcomplex. I agree, a trillion percent. We use Phabricator and it's great, but it took literally 3 days to get it all set up. If we were just starting out, I'd love to use something lightweight like this.

Not only is this mean spirited, I think it's fairly short-sighted. I've tried several to-do list apps and none of them have quite worked for me. I end up going back to scrap pieces of paper laying on my desk or stickies, both of which are sub-optimal. In fact I've never met anyone who fully recommends their to-do list software, their recommendation is always filled with caveats and things they still do "the old way."

Yes the market is saturated but that doesn't mean there is nothing innovative to be done here. I say more power to this person for building something for himself and putting himself out there to see what others think.

You have a point, but not a very solid point looking at the past of a lot of companies. I find most of these tools lacking (for instance, I find Basecamp rather unusable and really don't like to work with it as it makes me less efficient). If I find them lacking, other people have that same feeling. I'm not saying there is a big market per se for these kind of tools, but there is a market. When tools like Jira, Basecamp, RememberTheMilk and many, many others came to the market, there were tons of them at that time as well and yet they made it big, 2 of them well over $100 million / year businesses. With Stackoverflow you could say there were enough sites 'doing the same'.

Usually even if the US is DROWNING in startups or even grown up companies doing what you want to do, you can probably make a solid, well run business in your own country if you are outside the US. In big countries there are even regions where this works.

And scratching your itch is fun and it's always good to actually FINISH something, even though you won't make money with it.

So just don't comment or vote. If everyone feels the same, the post won't even make it on to the front page. The negativity isn't called for!

If the OP wants to try and make a business from it, let them. If it turns a profit, fantastic. If it doesn't, what a great experience - and maybe next time they'll have the experience and drive to make something you are interested in :-)

I agree that the main issue is calling it a startup. But I see nothing wrong with redoing something existing. I've been working on something similar just for the sake of having something to code on, and trying out a couple framework/technologies.

Regurgitating the "be innovative" line is just as cliche and overdone as building a todo list. No one has to be innovative to do a startup. It's just stupid dogma that people repeat to make themselves feel important, special, and unique. Being hostile when people show off their work makes people not want to share their work anymore. You don't have to blow sunshine up people's asses when you don't like something but you should be constructive nonetheless.

He did call out a hypothesis and kept the first version no frills...

I agree that a Todo list is common, but noone has solved it for everyone either, just like personal schedules, i still try out multiple solutions regularly.

That was completely uncalled for. Even if the market is flooded with todo apps, it doesn't mean there is no room for innovation and it doesn't mean that a new todo app can't pull in some solid revenue.

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