There's no such thing as a fake feather [video] | Hacker News Reader

There's no such thing as a fake feather [video]

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75 pointssurprisetalk42 comments

Indeed. Also very nearly always true with "fake" skeleton leaves used for crafting.

A small percentage (usually enlarged designs of particular shapes) are made with sophisticated latex presses, but most are chemically-stripped and treated real leaves (Ficus and suchlike) because it's simply easier to make them in bulk.

I was amazed by this at first — I bought some for a photography project simply assuming that their flexible, slightly springy nature meant they were artifically-made latex. But no: ficus leaves automatically processed in baking soda, essentially. The latex ones aren't even cheaper.

Well, ficus (ficus elastica and others) are natural latex - their sap is one of the forms of latex that occurs naturally and used to be harvested, but these days latex is harvested from a different plant (hevea brasiliensis, the "rubber tree")

So it's not so much as "the latex ones are cheaper" as "the real leaves are already made of latex, so why artificially make one out of latex?"

Ficus produces natural latex. The entire plant or leaf isn't latex!

What is left from this process in the fake leaf is a mixture of latex sap and processed lignin, I think. It's certainly not only latex.

Right, but if you process it with baking soda it coagulates the latex into the shape of a leaf with some strengthening fiber in it, which is approximately the exact thing you'd do with molded fiber-reinforced latex

That explains why the fake rubber moss I bought has an odd smell and the occasional bit of what seems like a real decayed leaf. Definitely feels like rubber, but if you're saying they took some real moss and chemically converted it to rubber-like material, that makes sense.

Seems possible. A bit of a google suggests that the process in that case would involve glycerin to replace the water content. So it could be that.

Given the incredible number of chickens that are processed every single minute across the world, this shouldn't be surprising but it's easy to see why you might be surprised if you never considered where all the stuff that isn't meat goes.

I found it pretty surprising. It would not have surprised me at all if we made fake plastic feathers and burned or buried even more real ones because it works out fractionally 'cheaper' to make new then collect and wash/treat the old.

Honestly, I’d still be surprised to learn feathers in America are produced from American poultry. Far more likely the local ones get burned and everything for sale is shipped across the ocean because cheaper.

Feathers? Not a chance. Far too much volume per unit weight. And if they're compressed, you end up with only broken feathers.

"What costs more to ship, a ton of feathers or a ton of bricks?"

Ahhh, Limmy. Just don't ask about purple burglar alarms.

Or they don't get burned but they do get shipped across the ocean to be processed, and then shipped back… that's the commercial way

Feather meal is used in animal feed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feather_meal

Manure is also fed to cows.

https://extension.missouri.edu/publications/g2077

"Poultry litter can be used as a feedstuff... There are currently no federal or Missouri regulations governing the use of poultry litter as a feedstuff"

Sometimes EU regulations isn't that bad.

Poultry litter has been banned as cattle feed since 2001, partially due to mouth and foot disease and BSE and to some extent animal welfare.

It’s also because real feathers are similarly durable as plastic feathers would be. Plants are very cheap to grow as well, but plastic plants are nevertheless a thing.

Plastic plants sell because they are free of maintenance, they don't wither and die, not because they are cheap to produce.

Yes, they sell for the aesthetic. I have real plants but some friends have fake ones and honestly at a distance without scrutiny they look just as good. Hell, certain real plants look and feel plasticky themselves due to how they're composed, especially vinous plants.

Exactly, that’s what I meant by durable. And cheap was referring to growing natural plants.

I think it's a shame more real leather isn't used. It just goes to waste, but fake leather is cheaper.

Fake leather is such an annoying scam. Real leather can last for a century if taken care of, fake leather lasts a handful of years before it literally flakes away into nothing.

Though that reminds me of the time I bought a real leather couch set that had absolute garbage everything else, the legs broke after a couple of years. Really not the part I was expecting the manufacturer to have cheaper out on...

Fake leather has a wide, wide range of quality. Polyurethane faux-leather used in many automobiles these days is considered to be superior to leather in terms of durability and longevity. Take a look at old examples of MB-Tex, which Mercedes has been making for ... 60-70 years by now.

Similarly, plenty of leather that will disintegrate and flake into trash or crack and peel, especially if not taken care of well.

My Mercedes "leather" seats have flaked in ten years, almost the entire seat area (where my butt goes) is now showing the white underneath.

Plenty of real leather seats that have done the same. I had a 10 year old real leather Volkswagen that did the same myself.

Meanwhile, I have a 11 year old Vinyl “fake leather” car with no issues, and a 8 year old car with PU pleather that looks nearly brand new. Ironically, the steering wheel is made of real leather and has started flaking in a few small corners.

I’m not sure how any of those anecdotes proves which is more durable or long lasting than the other.

There are also many grades or "real" leather. In particular, the label "Genuine Leather" means little more than "bits of leather included" [1].

[1] https://mahileather.com/blogs/news/what-is-genuine-leather

This seems like a good time to share the obligatory Fortnine leather vs fake leather video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwuRUcAGIEU

There’s also the fact that leather is the waste by product of harvesting meat. People aren’t going to stop eating meat any time soon.

I too am annoyed by “faux leather” as it is so stupid to see some ad saying leather jacket and when you look at the details see faux leather. That is not a leather jacket it is a plastic jacket so cut the shit. Same level of ragebait as things like vegetarian “meat”balls.

> Same level of ragebait as things like vegetarian “meat”balls.

There is some amazing vegetarian food out there. Both Buddhist and Hindu cultures have been making amazing vegetarian food for literally thousands of years and they are really good at it.

Also, vegetables are just yummy!

Fake meat, no thanks. Incredible vegetarian and vegan food exists, stop trying to fake it. Same with gluten free foods, almond flour is an amazing ingredient but it is different than flour. It is funny that the keto community had amazing gluten free recipes years before the gluten free communities figured it out.

Exactly. I find myself incidentally eating vegetarian most of the week, being Indian, just because it tastes good (and because it's cheaper, but that's another matter). My parents only eat meat on the weekends due to such cost so it's interesting to see people in the West eat meat for every meal such that its lack is noted.

Agreed... when I was a vegetarian, I ate nothing but Indian/Malay/Thai etc and it was great. If I hadn't moved I would probably be vegetarian to this day.

What’s wrong with vegetarian meatballs? As a vegetarian I find naming the products after what they’re imitating far more helpful that coming up with some clumsy confusing name that’s obviously trying to imply what they want to say without saying it… does anyone really read the word “vegetarian” and then still think it must have meat in it? I don’t think that’s a real problem

"Stop calling it soy MILK! There's no such thing as oat MILK! Milk comes from COWS."

What should they call it, then? Oat beverage? Soy water? No, that's silly. They are, functionally, milks. That's an apt descriptor.

Ditto for other vegan alternatives.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_milk#Labeling_and_termin...

It varies by country.

Maybe "juice" ? "Soy juice" and "Oat juice" sound pretty good to me.

On the "Soy milk" wikipedia page, it is said that Germany and Italy use names like "soy drink" or "soy beverage".

It is much closer in taste and use to milk than it is to juice.

I see my comment got upvotes but yours is downvoted for some reason, maybe they only read the first sentence and thought you were disagreeing? (or they agree with this for meastball but not milk for some reason)

It's more amusing when they call it "vegan leather".

I think you misread the word feather.

I have, in fact, personally made fake feathers for a friend's Halloween costume (respecting their preference to not wear or consume any animal product). It made it much more expensive and labor intensive, but since a costume is essentially a bit of fakery to begin with, it was at least consistent.

Things that can't be faked are going to be a mystery, reversing a phenomenon of just a few decades ago, when faking a thing perfectly was a miracle.

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