Overconsumption is a spiritual problem
sherryning.com
sherryning.com
I think the criticism in this thread is valid, and the essay would have been better if it had been a bit more nuanced, but there is something there; are you critically thinking about what what you have in your life and whether or not it was a good use of your time any money? Money itself is possibility. A couch is just a couch. But despite this being true, that doesn't mean the couch wasn't worth it.
At a certain point I realized that the most complex intellectual explanations for why things are is very often no better than the simplest and least intellectual explanation.
Generally speaking, sure. In real life though, it's not just that people get a couch, or some things they need, or ocassional splurge into buying some things as an indulgence.
It's that for shitloads of people (and the whole culture) are getting centered around consumption, constant consumption of things and even content (doomscrolling), mere consumption replacing other life aspirations, experiences, and relations.
Like, I don't live like a monk. I have a nice computer, a tv, my living space is furnished. But the transactional aspect of buying things always keeps me from just "shopping as entertainment" the way some people seem to enjoy doing. I don't like acquiring things more than I dislike spending money. I have to really want something, or need something to the point that doing without it is kinda a non-starter.
Perhaps if I had an easier time with material goods and money growing up, I could relax about spending money and somehow enjoy it.
The luxury stuff shown in in-flight magazines and such always seemed silly. Apparently I’m supposed to want all that stuff.
I have no desire for expensive watches, luxury cars, etc. If someone gave one, I wouldn’t even want it. Not even a question of affordability.
At that point you're training yourself to carry unnecessary psychological burdens for virtually no gain.
I also find a lot of luxury items are kind of contrived and status-oriented rather than innately luxurious. Like, cool sparkling water with ice in summer is very luxurious to me in an innate sense. The simplest luxuries tend to strike me as the nicest and least likely to be contrived in order to separate me from my money.
I want to swim in clean, cool water. Sleep on a nice mattress with nice bedding. Cycle to work rather than drive. Have space in my home for hobbies. Have access to clean air. Have access to good food. Live in a city with a lot of green space. In the scheme of things, these seem like incredible luxuries to me. Many people in the world don't have most of these. I don't want to let myself believe they're not luxurious and that instead, I need a $150k car (for example) to feel like I've made it.
The interviewee gives a good map for figuring out how to figure out your values.
For me, writing down my values was an involved process that included reading multiple books about decision making (including Keeney's), journaling over the course of several months, and interviewing friends and family to incorporate their perspectives.
Since I defined my values I have found them quite helpful in a variety of circumstances. Some examples:
- I reflected on my values when deciding whether to accept a job in a different country. They didn't change what I chose but they gave me confidence in my decision.
- I used them as part of Keeney's value focused decision making process to choose an apartment to live in. Knowing my values led me to choose a different apartment than I would have if I had made the decision intuitively.
- In the last couple of weeks I have been feeling a bit lost and I have reflected on some ways I have not been living up to my values. Knowing what my values are shows me what I need to do to get myself back where I want to be.
Overall I can't recommend defining/writing out your values enough. It has had a significant positive impact on my life. Loved ones have since commented that I seem more self-actualized and intentional.
Consumption isn't just buying things. It's the media, food, drink, and substances you consume as well. Sitting in an empty house watching videos/playing games on your phone all day is just as vacant of a lived life than filling your time with shopping and products.
The real spiritual problem is not having hobbies or interests, or only having surface level versions of those two things.
Deciding certain spending is bad doesn't really help.
I don't think though the same mechanism is at play with the feeling of lust for some person, as seems to be implied. The lust is in our DNA for good reasons. 'Overconsumption' or over indulging into it, is what we should avoid indeed, but that doesn't make lust a vice.
I would promote the feeling of love - in the broad meaning of the word. Love is what we truly desire, that is what can provide as well to our fellow people. We can do that without overspending, simply showing care can go a long way.
Good thing people are still religious and have a god to worship and make sacrifices.
I don't think either of these things are remotely accurate lol
Many don’t need to commute, purchase lunch food, shop downtown, buy commuter consumables etc. we do so because we have in the past. And I say this as a life long lover of the classic pre covid city life.
Now we discovered most people are content at home with some food, entertainment and a few hobbies. The rest of the consumption is a mix of boredom and ritual.
And more than half the population would be out of a job without that
In all my time in the USA I've encountered one person whose home looked like they had some kind of genuine medically diagnosable hoarding problem. If I walk down a small alley in Taiwan and peek into the homes, I would say 50% of them look slightly cleaner than that man's home, and 10% look just the same. I can pass about 15 ground floor units on either side of me with about a minute of walking. There is a lot of hoarded garbage here.
Thinking about my own life, when I moved to university all my possessions fitted in a car with both me and my mum as well. I was happy. After university, I went travelled for a year and all my possessions fitted inside an 80L rucksack. I was happy.
I came back to my own country. Got a job. Got money. Started buying toys because I could, but everything still fitted into my room in a shared house (plus a few things in the common rooms).
5 years later, I bought a house and all my possessions fitted in 2 car loads, but this time with just me driving. But then, I wanted furniture, so I got a load of big bulky things delivered. And over the years, I've been buying more and more things and never really felt like I needed to throw anything away because I had lots of space.
Now, if I do the exercise in the article, I agree. Everything I can see is stuff I wanted. I might not have used it for 10 years, but it's still in good condition, I still have the purpose in mind that I bought it for, and it's wasteful to just throw away. But despite that, it makes me sad because it's just clutter. Every I look in my house, it's just stuff, most of which I don't really need and haven't used in years, but... I might. Just today, there was an article about Kobos, and I dug out my 3 Kobo's that have been untouched for years. Would I have been sad if I'd thrown them out and couldn't now use them? I'm not sure. When I go travelling for a month or more at a time and only use half of the things in my suitcase, I kind of wonder what the purpose of everything else in my house is.
Anyway, that was long and rambling, but my point is just that as we get older and have more capacity, we naturally want to buy nice things that we want in the moment. I have had times in my life when money was scarce (for my family in childhood and also when I was out of work for about 3 months during the financial crisis), and so the urge to keep things that are in good condition is very strong. If I fall on hard times again, I could still use them.
If you look at society as a whole in China and Taiwan, you see a place where the vast majority of the population were poor if their lifetimes. I remember reading an article once about how the average family in 1980s Beijing would aspire to own (not even own, just aspire) a family bicycle, a watch and a radio. Compared to the West, their lives were incredibly frugal, not out of choice, but out of necessity. As their society's standards of living and purchasing power has rocketed over the last few decades, people are obviously able to buy more, but the older generation will always remember the hard times. Changing your scarcity mindset is incredibly difficult - I've wanted to declutter my house for at least 3 years, but it's really hard to actually do it, especially when you have the space to store things. Now just extrapolate that up to a whole society, collectively going through the same process, but because they're all in a similar mindset, that just reinforces the idea that this is normal and the right thing to do.
It's weird though. Whenever I'm walking down the road, and someone has their curtains open and the lights on and you can't help but look - whenever I see something really sparse - a sofa, a TV, maybe a cabinet or bookcase, I feel so jealous that I can't just do that myself. It's not like I even need to buy anything to make that happen, I just need to dispose of everything else!
Personally, I've made a plan to take at least one full carload of stuff to the tip and take a bag of stuff to a charity stuff over this Christmas holiday, just to try to start the ball rolling on changing my mindset. But I know it won't be easy, because I've had the same thoughts in previous years...
I mean declutter if you feel suffocated. But values really have nothing to do with it.
I don't think anyone in western society argues for consumerism, either.
Nobody said you have to do this alone.
I'm an overspender, probably for mental health reasons or whatever. Still I know that what I'll remember on my death bed will not be my Apple Watch or my car.
I'll remember laughing with my son, with my wife, partying with friends, learning rollerblading, riding rollercoasters, I'll remember the good movies, the good videogames, the good music. I'll remember the theatre. I'll remember the people I loved.
That doesn't sound boring at all.
An acquaintance of mine bought a really beautiful car, a brand new Porsche 911. I actually like it but he doesnt want anyone to touch it and barely drives it himself because he is afraid of damaging it. To be able to buy this car, he sacrificed his familly life and saw his wife and daughter only on weekends for years. That, to me, sounds boring.
I'm actually saying that Western philosophy won, even in eastern cultures today. Eastern thought worked well for penniless peasant societies that could never hope to improve their condition, and likewise pre-enlightenment Western thought was very much the same. But it evolved, and we got Rosseau and Nietzche and others who unveiled the true driving force of modern man. We all want, and if we can satisfy those wants, we will.
"Without values, desires lead you astray by following ads and algorithms and the envy of friends-a state commonly known as "being distracted"."
Great idea: Use the computer network for delivering ads. The medium used for work, research, recreation, etc. will also be the vector for delivering ads
And that's not all. Use the computer network to perform surveillance on internet subscribers. The data can be used to inform the delivery of ads
Computer networks were not always used for these purposes. It's a truly innovative idea, very creative
Depending on what you think of data collection, surveillance and ads
But as others have mentioned, reckless / impulse spending can also be a sign of conditions like depression, BPD, ADHD, and the list goes on...
Many of my most memorable moments stem from from a bout of irrationality.
Games like these are everywhere.
I mean this comment is like the epitome of sweet summer child.
Please read the Price of Peace.
But still, are you saying that I'd better consume things I actually don't need because that's the only way to avoid war ? I'm not saying that you should stop buying things. We need objects in our life.
But are Apple Watches, Airpods or VR headsets or foldable phones protecting us from war ? I hope not because that sounds depressing.
(Asking genuine qestion, I'm not doing virtue signaling here, I do own a VR headset, a pair of airpods and an Apple Watch and none of those objects are making me happy actually)
But then what emerged is that the largest consumer engines of production and consumptions could control the global trade and resources in a way that would suppress warfare globally by creating an economic MAD game alongside the nuclear one.
People don’t understand how much violence this likely saved us. However it is of course not without consequences. I'm just saying so far the side effects have FAR FAR outweighed the sickness (world war)
It is the latter that is useful and brings peace. People won't get too mad if their neighbors have more stuff as long as their stuff allows them a pretty good quality of life. But problems arise when you cannot buy the better stuff to improve your life and instead the focus is redirected to stupid items.
This is what the article is about, in my opinion. In the end, filling your house with gadgets and gizmos of dubious usefulness/quality does not improve your life substantially. But this is what much of the population has been relegated to, and it has a soul-crushing effect.
OK, but you did recognise that it was a reference to the parable of the broken window by the 'sweet summer child' Claude-Frédéric Bastiat?
In a sibling I see that you actually drop the name of a book, as if you expect the world to read a book to respond to you.
I propose you formulate your argument, if you actually have something to say. Even if it is a summary of a book, summarise it into a argument which is relevant for this conversation. Who knows, maybe even I manage to understand you then.
But basically speaking, games of destruction can be obviously extremely economical incentivized regardless of what humans call 'productive.' And economies and markets have never ever promised to be narrowly productive for a specific moral world view. Quite the opposite actually.
Please don't claim insult where basic knowledge is simply lacking.
There are also interesting efficiencies in there. Fixing a window is not as quick as just replacing it.
But that's also a toll to the environment.
Just encourage them to take part in some low-cost digital alternative like Sports Predictions.
Feeding and housing them though? Absolutely doable. It would require a significant change in our societies, but we know enough things about the universe to accomplish this.
If you're saying, politically, this is impossible, sure, you're probably right.
This is a ‘the entire world economy is based on fossil fuels, and attempting to redo the entire worlds economy to use non-fossil fuels is not currently doable’. Even the best case emergency scenarios would have to use even more fossil fuels to try.
Germany and California have tried elements of it, but even despite massive investment they are still heavily dependent on fossil fuels for almost all the baseline parts of their economies (transportation, heating, industrial uses, etc).
If we all went on a wartime footing and devoted our entire economies to completely retooling the worlds economies, maybe - but realistically, it’s clear that people would rather blow each other up (which will also solve this problem a bit !) than do that.
And a big reason why is a lot of people are likely to starve to death or be pushed into poverty to attempt it.
But, it's not like we need fossil fuels to farm, and there's already enough housing for all the humans. If we engaged in expropriation, it's certainly physically possible.
It would require ignoring human nature. After all, why would the folks whose property gets expropriated go along with this? (And think for a second what you would do if you were on the other side of the equation.)
It’s all fun and games until it’s taking your stuff to give to a bunch of currently homeless folks.
Expropriation mostly means taking from corporations and giving to everyone, and maybe you're in a more developed nation but in the USA that would just mean giving it to nearly the majority of the people there. E.g. clearing out grocery stores and giving people food, and moving people from slums into empty luxury condos. Plenty of housing to fit the homeless as well, but they're a small slice.
If the PRC isn't capitalist, neither is the USA. Market dynamics drive everything in the USA, they have a concept of private property (no 99 year rule has triggered), and the means of production are owned by a capital class that uses it to exploit labor for further profit. Just because they have strong regulations and the government injects money all over the place doesn't mean it's not capitalist. It's just like a supercharged version of some highly socialized version of a European nation, plus an oversized secret police operation, but that's more on the political side than the economic one.
> It would require ignoring human nature. After all, why would the folks whose property gets expropriated go along with this?
Mostly corporations, so, capitalism over, so, nothing lol. If you mean their billionaire owners, I guess they would probably be keeping their heads down in this kind of situation. The idea is the improvement of quality of life for all people, even the billionaire class could hardly complain at a massive reduction in poverty and thus crime.
They've been stealing for the majority of people for so long I think it's only fair to expropriate it back.
But ok, how do you shift the entire world off fossil fuels without dismantling capitalism? What profit motive would drive someone to choose a more expensive energy solution that requires reconfiguring equipment?
It's not a relevant question, in the same way the desires of the Confederacy for independence were irrelevant when they lost the Civil War.
But also, I did answer it: Some would probably go along with it because of the obvious overall improvement to society that would result, which they would enjoy just as much as anyone else. After all, they already pay taxes so that roads exist and homeless are at least fed (and thus not harassing people as much). I said this in my previous comment.
Do you think the civil war was a pleasant or productive one for anyone?
The British did it a different way re: slavery, and notably did not burn half their country to the ground - and still banned it.
- it is currently doable
- china is working on it
- they will succeed
- while we flip the two insane political parties in power every 4 to 8 years that each kills everything previous one did just out of spite if for no other reason
And maybe in 20+ years we’ll be closer.
But that is not the same as what was being discussed.
They are not powering their industries with renewables. If you believe that, I don't know what to tell you.
Spending for the sake of spending is silly.
The problem is that she presents no direct stance as to what values a person should have in order to resist overconsumption. I suspect that's because this post itself is a sort of product to be consumed and it really doesn’t matter what the reader may buy less of under its influence...as long as it’s not y’know...a Substack subscription.
It’s important that people who have the nerve to present these sort of arguments to color their appeal with some sort of objective stand beyond what’s bound to appeal to the broadest audience/target demographic. Or else the reader might as well go back to whatever Netflix series they’re in the middle of. Unless these sort of posts are meant to be consumed in conjunction with said series...
A lot of people also have the problem of visiting /r/somehobby and then buying things because other people are buying them.
It's kind of mind-blowing to look at all the stuff you bought this year and didn't end up really using.
This is just an opinion piece with no formal research applied. I feel the “essay” label is overused, often to make the author feel like an authority figure, or make the target audience feel more educated/informed for reading it (even though it’s just another person’s opinion on the subject).
To be clear, I’m not disagreeing with the message in this blog. In fact, I think there’s a lot of truth in over-consumerism.
But there seems to be some stigma with “blog”, and just calling a writing an “essay” doesn’t automatically make it different from a blog.
Going, going, going on beyond, always going on beyond, always becoming Buddha.
Boredom.
Moralizing it in this fashion is elitist garbage. The author needs to look in the mirror first.
I definitely had some kind of shopping addiction when I got my first couple paychecks as an engineer. Suddenly I could just have things, a first for me so far in my entire life (my parents were frugal out of necessity, I'm grateful for it of course). Then I moved, and I had just a whole bunch of bullshit I had to pack and move, which was when I first started wondering about buying stuff.
I'm starting to think of consumerist culture as an ongoing psychic attack. Advertisements are trying to get me to do something that hurts me. I don't need anything any ad shows me, ever, so why the fuck are there so many ads out there trying to convince me otherwise? Why should I trade a slice of freedom (cash is runway for unemployed time) for new shoes, when I have shoes, or a new phone, when I have a phone?
And on that note, why would I ever buy anything new, even when I ostensibly need something? Such as a new laptop? Is the extra thousand or even two thousand for the latest macbook justifiable when I can get the early m1 or m2s for under a thousand bucks, and perform the job just as well? Or hell, just a nice used thinkpad? Genuinely what innovation in the phone world in the last 5 years is so incredible that I absolutely must spend 700$ or more on the latest hottest model, when I can get a still-in-LTS Pixel-something for like 250$? If anything phones have been removing features, like headphone jacks and sd card slots. What do I need 120hz refresh rate screens for? It just drains my battery. What, so the ads on my phone can look smoother?
I challenged myself this year to buy nothing new, to only either repair things that break or get a used replacement if absolutely necessary. Other than, of course, things like underwear or batteries. I even get used HDDs for my homelab. It's been a joy. I went to Japan for Japan Burn and, lacking cold weather camping clothes, just stopped by a vintage shop in Tokyo and got a banger pair of vintage jeans, a nice thick flannel, and a waxed jacket for a combined 100$ (the levy 501 selvedge alone go for 100$ new). My old kobo finally bit the dust and I got a model released this year on facebook marketplace for 20% off since the owner just didn't like that size. My earbuds broke and on a mission to replace them on that same Japan trip, I found a pair of 300$ retail IEMs for 80$ in a used electronics store, in-box, in excellent condition. It's absolutely remarkable the stuff people are selling or throwing away. I genuinely don't know why I'd need to buy anything new ever again.
The other upside for going used and vintage is they really did used to build it better before. Instead of uniqlo puff jackets that are super packable and light but explode if you scratch them wrong, I just wear a thick linen jacket that looks to be 40 years old now and will probably outlive me. My boots are some used Redwings that someone else broke in for me, and all I gotta do is get them re-soled every 5-10 years depending on how quick I wear them down. It's that Pratchett story about the poor man's boots vs the rich man's boots, except I'm still paying less than the rich man.
The last target for me is books. I absolutely cannot kill the urge to buy cool used books I find. My office is far too full of books. But oh well, I feel like at least books are somewhat harmless to keep around, compared to a bunch of junk I used to have around the apartment, dragging from move to move.
You have an entire system built around laws, companies and education that consistently targets your attention (and your wallet).
But hey, if you fall in the trap it's because you lack values.