One of these things is not like the other: Apple store, Microsoft store | Hacker News Reader

One of these things is not like the other: Apple store, Microsoft store

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21 pointsapress35 comments

I can confirm the same kind of experience with Microsoft stores with the one just outside Chicago. When I first saw it I wondered why they would even open such a store when Microsoftt products don't really lend themselves to a branded store. I speculated that they just saw how well the Apple store did and decided to copy just like they copy a lot of things competitors do (for better or worse, I'm not saying its bad/good, right/wrong). Then another more plausible thought came to mind. This could be a way to get people to believe there's no difference between Apple and Microsoft. In fact I have this creeping feeling they actually want to confuse people into thinking its the same store. In my case there was an Apple store on the opposite end of the same mall. Think about it. Both stores are eerily similar on first glance. They both have just a big logo outside with an open floor plan and a bunch of products on tables. My own mother who loves Apple products, owns a few, but is still not a tech savvy person asked me "Is that the new Apple store?". It reminded me of the way Samsung designed and packaged some of their phones and tablets in such a way that "moms who always buy the wrong thing for Christmas" are tricked into thinking a tablet is an iPad because it looks like an iPad. In this case it almost seems like the idea is to get people to buy a laptop/phome/whatever from the Microsoft store because it looks like the Apple store and therefor if it looks the same it must be the same.

But the problem with a dedicated Microsoft store is that You can buy a Microsoft product anywhere. There's no difference in terms of products between a Microsoft store and a Best Buy, Wal Mart, Target, any cell phome carrier's store, and electronics shops in general. The products in a MS store is just a subset of what you can get anywhere else. Now contrast this with the experience of buying an Apple product. There's a consistent experience and consistent branding across the board. There's the Apple store which is the ultimate controlled experience and even when you buy an Apple product elsewhere there's still consistency. For example, if you buy an Apple product from Best Buy there's a dedicated Apple area that is specially set up and designed like a mini Apple store even if it's a single table with an iMac and a MacBook. The table is the same table as the one at the Apple store and so are the tags (iPads with prices and specs) and there's even a little wall that looks like a chunk of Apple Store.

There's always consistent branding with Apple too. Even if you buy an iMac out the back of some guys truck! That's because all their products have a distinct look and the little apple logo. You can't buy an HP Mac or a Lenovo MacBook Air. If it's an Apple then it's an Apple from top to bottom and there's no other logos or branding anywhere.

This is why a Microsoft Store not only doesn't make sense but makes it look like an attempt to copy, confuse, mislead, or create a false equivalency between the Microsoft and Apple brands. Now that Microsoft looks like its going to start manufacturing it's own hardware like with the new Surface it would make sense but until they can fill a store with Microsoft manufactured products first and foremost with a few sections for third party accessories then it looks more like a cheap way to ride someone else's coat tails.

Nice analysis. Just to be fair, Microsoft has been making hardware for a long time now - myriad keyboards, mice, other accessories, and of course the Xbox.

I first saw a Microsoft store at the Stanford Shopping Center (Palo Alto, CA), right next to the Apple store. At Valley Fair (Santa Clara, CA), I noticed a Microsoft store and my friend commented how it looked like an Apple store. I looked around and sure enough there was an Apple store 30 feet away. Microsoft isn't trying to be subtle at all, which seems to support your theory.

Yeah the Microsoft store in Palo Alto is pretty embarrassing. You notice two things immediately since you can visibly compare just by turning your head. First, it's a carbon copy of the Apple store's design. Second, the Apple store has tons of people in it and the Microsoft store is empty.

If you've ever been to the Mall of America, its even more blatant. The Microsoft store is directly across from the Apple store.

I was in there once when I got my 4s, and decided why not pick up Forza 4 while I was there. It was a bit surreal, the overall experience of walking in and telling an associate: I want X was markedly different. This store unlike the Boston store, was almost dead except for people playing xbox, and browsing the web on the computers.

Same deal in the University Village store near University of Washington. They even set up a tent to pitch to the standing queue for the latest iThing du jour.

Same thing in Seattle! I went to an Apple Store there with a friend and we found an Microsoft store across the parking lot. The exterior and some of the decor were similar, but the Microsoft products were much more haphazard (different brands, OS versions, some weren't working, etc...).

To be honest, Apple stores aren't really needed either, but they advertise and raise brand awareness (Kinda like expensive designer fashion stores).

I disagree with this: one of the main functions of Apple's stores has been to shift product servicing and support from telephone / third-party resellers to direct contact. I needed a screen replaced on a 15" MBP a few months ago, which without an Apple Store near me would have required my laptop to be out of commission for a week. At the Apple Store, the repair happened while I waited.

I would argue many people have been converted to Macs because of the support available at the stores. Regardless of this, many Apple Stores are highly profitable - the Regents Street store in London, for example, has the highest sales per square foot of any store in the city[1].

[1]: http://www.macworld.co.uk/mac/news/?newsid=27038

PCs bought from the Microsoft store have a customized OS image that removes crapware, comes with MSE instead of some trial version of McAfee etc. That is IMO reason enough by itself for the stores to exist (from a Windows brand image perspective). Besides, Best Buy et al aren't terribly healthy these days - something has to take up the slack.

Let's summarize: Apple, a hardware manufacturer, had only Apple products in their store. Microsoft, a software company, had hardware from many manufacturers, which is apparently confusing to Apple customers. Oh, and Microsoft's store was smaller.

First off, it actually is confusing to Apple customers. It's way too easy in our little bubble to really understand how little a normal person cares about the things we care about. You have no idea how many people think that Googles search bar IS the address bar. I've seen people use the search bar of their browser and/or going to the Google homepage to search for "www.whateverSiteTheyKnewTheAddressOf.com" even though the address bar is literally 10 pixels from the search bar! This is the vast vast vast majority of people who use technology.

It's easy to scoff but these are your users (unless your users are just like you but that's rare).

I'd ask what is the advantage of having a Microsodt store? Why would it be beneficial for Microsoft to invest money in operating a chain of stores that serve the exact same purpose every other generic electronics store serves? To me there's no logic there unless the purpose is to confuse people or to try to make your brand seem like its equivalent in a "well this looks like Apple so it must be the same" kind of way.

Clearly Microsoft wants to develop a brand on an equal footing with Apple. There's no other way to survive against Apple. Building Microsoft retail stores (fronted with their rather lovely, modern logo) and staking out their own retail domain, away from the clutter of the big boxes, is part of that push.

The question here I think is about execution, not the utility of this strategy. Seems like they are making some very odd mistakes - because of lack of focus, or perhaps trouble keeping the OEMs happy?

I don't see Microsoft succeeding until they bite the bullet and make their own laptops/desktops/etc... like Apple.

They're imitating Apples veneer and not the underlying reason its appealing.

There's no other way to survive against Apple.

Android is doing pretty well without a dedicated store.

I was referring to the need for brand power, not the store specifically. Android has indeed developed brand power, but Microsoft's situation and needs are different from Android and I think a store is an absolute must. Android has successfully created a story that people like about power and choice in your pocket, and good on Google and the OEMs for that. But Microsoft is a much, much bigger entity than Android, and they have a proportionally grander and more ambitious vision (or need to have such a vision or are trying to develop such a vision) about technology, a vision they want to bring to people through a much more complex and heavily integrated suite of technology and services. And one of the best ways to do this is through a polished, exciting store experience (not sure if Microsoft is quite managing that, but hopefully the situation should improve.)

Microsoft's imperative is to distill its sprawling empire into something sleek and powerful. Android's imperative, should it choose to accept it, is to expand on its successful foundation intelligently without diluting or confusing the story it tells. Totally opposite problems IMO.

I can only imagine Microsoft is using the stores to raise brand awareness, just like Apple is. But I do find this weird in a way, I mean Microsoft has like 90% of the consumer market (at least here in Europe). Everyone and their mother has used some products of Microsoft in their lives, while the same can not be said for Apple products.

Microsoft apparently also feels the need to raise brand awareness on Windows, as the brand Windows is one of the main sponsors of MTV's Europe Music Awards 2012.

I've personally been to a few Microsoft stores and they all have that distinct cargo cult feel. They feel like a designer walked through an Apple Store once and then designed the rest from memory. The biggest difference I noticed was layout. Some things were organized by brand, some by type, and then the Xbox stations were just sort of thrown in-between things.

In an Apple Store there is enough room between each table for 3 people to stand comfortably: 2 to check out stuff and 1 to walk through in the middle. The Microsoft store was much more cramped meaning you always had to be pushing through a crowd. It certainly gave the illusion of a packed store. However, even when an Apple Store is absolutely packed, you never find yourself pushing through a crowd.

Shrug I don't think this is some blight on Microsoft though. It is there first attempt at a solid retail presence. Apple stores weren't always as great as they are now and I'm sure that Microsoft will iterate their store design to improve it.

"Cargo cult feel" is a pretty generous way to phrase it. The closer one looks, the more it looks more like Jennifer Jason Leigh's character in Single White Female. Check out how they mimic the opening ceremonies for a new store:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dStiYaxeQ4Q#t=4m51s (Apple store)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9Hk0ZCqRxg (MS store)

I would imagine the reason for the difference in purchasing would be Apple's consistent pricing strategy. The price of an Apple product seems to be set no matter where you get it from, whereas people will bargain hunt for a Windows machine.

I enjoyed the Microsoft store, as well as the sony store in LA.

Personally, I've grown bored with the apple store and don't have a reason to visit any longer (Same old inventory and experience for years). Now, the MS & Sony stores had several things that I haven't seen in retail stores before (3d binoculars, high end cameras etc..) and was very engaging. If I had a need for what they were selling (and wasn't such a amazon fanatic), I'd have no problem dropping in. I think this is a good trend.

The Mac fans are being a little too precious, IMHO.

Sony stores, of course, way predate Apple stores. [I first saw them in the '80s, but who knows...]

Sony's a bit lost these days (post playstation, the death of founder Akio Morita, and their move into "content"), but back in the day Sony stores were everything that Apple stores are today: Cool and laid-back, located in the most fashionable part of town, with a spare stylish vibe and spare stylish products, intended as much to set a tone as to sell stuff.

Indeed I would not be surprised if Sony stores were the original model for Apple stores.

I went to the Sony store to savor the first OLED television available for purchase. Oh man, it was sweet.

Personally, I've grown bored with the apple store and don't have a reason to visit any longer...

My family owns one Mac and two PCs. When the Mac needed some minor servicing, the value of a local Apple Store became really apparent: we called, made a same-day appointment, went in, had the Mac serviced, and left happy customers in a very short period of time.

When a PC problem occurs, I call, wait on hold, slowly convince the technical support person whose first language isn't English that it needs to be shipped back for servicing, pack it up, label is properly, drive to a FedEx or UPS shop, ... it goes on and on, and it's a real hassle. Also, very stressful: who knows if you'll ever actually see your PC again? Even if you do, who knows when it'll come back?

My PC is due for replacement. Now that I'm older and have a family and many responsibilities, I'm willing to pay a premium for fast, hassle-free, local service. I'm not yet 100% sure I'll switch to Mac, but I might... and that's in large part because there's a few local Apple Stores near by.

I agree. This is a great reason to by a mac. It would be nice if the competition did this too.

I don't get why are so offended that another store is similar to one they like. It's just an electronics retailer.

It's pretty obvious why no-one bought anything: The Windows 8 machines were there to try only. Windows 8 hasn't been released yet. And the windows 7 phones are going to be obsolete in a couple of months when the win 8 phones come out.

I am with you on this one...even hardware manufacturers are promising a free upgrade to win8 as an incentive to buy now. I imagine the same is similar for the phones they are selling.

A lot of non tech people are happy to buy apple products even with an impending refresh. Probably a combination of apple keeping quiet on new products before launch and the products already being good enough for most people.

Yes: Apple and Microsoft are different companies.

Yeah, "one of these things is not like the other" really doesn't make any sense if you think about it when there are only two "things".

Either both of them are not like the other, or both of them are like the other.

I went into the one in the "Mall of Florida" in Orlando about a week ago.

I went right to the phones because, quite honestly, I've never even seen a Windows phone "in the wild". I picked up a phone and started poking.

The very first words I heard were from a sales person who snuck up behind me and are as follows: "you don't want to buy that". No "hello". No "how may I help you" or "are you looking for something specific". Nope. "You don't want to buy that."

Further questioning revealed that I did not, in fact, want to buy much of anything in the store because "there's a new Windows coming out soon".

So I didn't. Buy anything. Or even hang out. It just felt creepy.

I think they didn't buy it from the store because they went home and bought it online at a cheaper price whereas the luxurious apple supremacists have no problem shelling out lavish amounts of money for an apple designed usb drive.

Microsoft went into retail not to actually make more money but to increase mindshare and build up the brand. That said though, I expect things to change a good bit come this holiday season.

Microsoft have always been awful at marketing. The design of Microsoft stores seems like them admitting so, and trying a "fake it 'til you don't have to" approach.

The Microsoft stores are going to be used to market the Surface line of devices. Microsoft figured that the Best Buy folks were not doing a good job and could probably steer people away from Microsoft products. So we will see this strategy come into effect in 20 days when Windows 8 launches and the Microsoft stores and the popup stores in the malls will be the only places where you can buy a Surface.

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