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Comment by protocolture | Hacker News Reader

Its crazy how the AusGov has just tried to turn this into some kind of nationalistic celebration. Passing laws isolating children isnt to be celebrated by lighting up national monuments.

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Do you have kids ? Do you see kids in your day to day life ? I do, every day, and even <10 years old already have permanent neck damage from scrolling as soon as they haves 5 seconds of free time. I see groups of friends walking back from schools, they're side by side, scrolling on their phone, not talking, not even looking in front of them. I walk by 3 schools multiple times every single day and that's all I see as soon as they're outside of the playground (because they're not allowed while inside). Locking up kids inside social media echo chambers is much more isolation than kicking them out of them imho

They already excluded many popular and addictive services that are used for grooming

This will enhance surveillance and state control of content, but not address the problems you’ve mentioned

I do have a son. I plan to tell my kiddo not to engage with those platforms and set boundaries. I dont plan to force every kid in every scenario into the same pattern.

>Locking up kids inside social media echo chambers is much more isolation than kicking them out of them imho

"Locking" Why not instead ban the social graph, or certain engagement techniques. Theres a whole other arm here, where the AusGov has pulled back entirely from promised gambling restrictions. Its easy to see a path where dark patterns in both industries are outlawed instead of banning half.

Not to mention that 4chan and youtube are unaffected, so I doubt those kids with the broken backs or whatever are going to be "free".

i doubt 4chan will be unaffected by this

4chan has, at best, 5-10% of the traffic of tiktok

Isolating children from what? If anything, this will make they spend more time with their friends and family

What about the kids who are bullied and isolated at school? What about those who have an abusive family?

What about the kids who are bullied on social media?

One of the good things about the Internet is that you can leave such sites and find people who don't do that.

Most kids don't really have such a choice when it comes to school or their family.

Online abuse works the exact same way. Most kids don’t choose to be abused online either.

Yes. What I'm saying is that people can choose to leave online spaces that are abusive, as opposed to abuse at school or home, which are much harder (usually impossible) for children to escape.

They should simply stop using social media. Why ban everyone else?

Ah yes brilliant. Instead of trying to address these issues at their source let’s just let kids form immaterial connections online and guarantee they never learn how to form any sort of in person communication skills!

That's the spirit. Gotta get that ad revenue.

I'm sorry what does a gay kid do about parents that think they are fundamentally immoral? What does any kind of abused kid do? Because my parents were abusive, but not in the way that left marks and the internet was the only thing keeping me sane. I lived in a neighborhood with no kids my age and across town from my school, so even the friends I made there lived nowhere near me. The internet was not a place I made immaterial connections. It's where I maintained what I had until the rare occasions I could see them outside of school. It was where I got to interact with people who gave me the motivation to keep going until I could escape. What does a kid like me do without the internet? No one was going to step in because my parents isolated me and where a bit mean (from their POV, not mine). Not when I was clean, had food and clothing, and was a straight A student, be real.

You are framing this as if you had no in person social connections due to your circumstances. By your OWN admission elsewhere in this thread, this is untrue:

> Kids are in these spaces because there is no place for them to be. People call the police on unaccompanied kids outside. Teens are banned from malls. Where are teens supposed to be where they won't be harassed. When I was a kid we used to just wander around and chat. There used to be a whole event on Friday evenings where high schoolers would decent on this mall across the street from two movie theaters. We went to the skating ring. There were teen clubs. More. Right now, I can't think of a single place a teen could just hang out besides at each other houses which is mostly what I watch them do. It makes sense why they end up in virtual spaces. They can socialize privately that way.

What I am saying is that we should work toward bringing those ^ spaces BACK, rather than allowing kids to wallow in digital space. The more we are online, the more difficult that becomes. The more time we spend in digital space, the more we lose control over our physical spaces.

Ah yes brilliant. Let's keep trying to solve these issues that we've been trying to solve for centuries. That's clearly going well. Instead, let's put a bandaid on it so we don't have to look at the issue for a little bit.

Alternatively, letting some kids who struggle to form connections IRL learn to form them online might give some the confidence and self-assuredness to form connections IRL when they want to.

Anyway I'm not sure why you think that I'm suggesting we don't try to address bullying and family abuse. Did I say we should only do one or the other?

We very clearly are making progress on these century long issues, unless you somehow think kids now are growing up in more hostile physical environments than they were 100 years ago.

This ban does not prevent kids from using IM platforms like WhatsApp, Messenger, Discord so your argument that this somehow restricts the ability for online communication is false.

What you are arguing against is the restriction of access to apps like TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, X, Snapchat —- all of which are filled with predatory algorithms that have shown to have negative affect on the mental health of teens, young adults, AND adults.

> What you are arguing against is the restriction of access to apps like TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, X, Snapchat —- all of which are filled with predatory algorithms that have shown to have negative affect on the mental health of teens, young adults, AND adults.

Actually, what I'm arguing against is the restriction of whatever apps a government chooses to apply their very loose definition to. What happens when the kids congregate on another platform? Presumably they'll just add that to the list too, right? Does a cat and mouse game seem productive? To say nothing of the precedent set being used for political ends.

What I'm arguing for is stuff that may actually solve the underlying issues - like, for example, addressing those predatory algorithms you refer to.

Absolutely second this, and I am part of the younger generation. Technology is isolating. Social media feeds superficial relationships. The anxiety it creates is so worrying.

>Isolating children from what?

We already have reports of disabled kids experiencing suicidal ideation as they are cut off from their only non familial social experience.

Isolating children? They’re schoolchildren! They see their peers at school every day.

Isolated from ads sold by the social media companies lol

We already have reports about disabled kids experiencing suicidal ideation due to losing their only non family social connections.

Not to mention that Australias youth are quite politically engaged, we have a news network entirely run by teenagers that just had their service gutted.

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