Detainees at 'Alligator Alcatraz' facing 'harrowing human right violations'
theguardian.com
theguardian.com
It is quite difficult to get a lawyer visit or proof of life for a detainee, even if you have lawsuits being filed from outside and string-pulling from representatives.
There are also categories of prisoners who are being told by guards that they'll never get out, never see legal process or summary deportation, they will just rot in a cell indefinitely.
....oh wait.
And I knew about the hieleras[1] and about Guantanamo.
And about so many other instances in history, from so many governments.
But I hoped our arc would not be toward more people treated this way, more proudly. I hoped we would stop running so eagerly toward the poison.
[1] https://www.hrw.org/report/2018/02/28/freezer/abusive-condit...
Nothing more needs to be said. Nothing more needs to be debated. This is evil, pure and simple.
The evil ones are the people that put out the welcome mat for great caravans of immigrants, then looked the other way or even threw them out of their community when they arrived in their backyard.
Such people were great humanitarians when the immigrants were staying close to the border. That changed quickly when the first bus arrived at Martha’s Vineyard.
The truly evil ones are the NIMBY crowd, when they were the welcoming crowd for somebody else’s back yard.
Do these people even exist?
Because we know who design, built and allowed this to happen
But your statement not only shifts the blame to some disconnected group, it absolves the only people with direct action from the guilt associated with it
The immigrants that were sent to Martha’s Vineyard were immediately escorted elsewhere, under care of the National Guard. ( Money can do those sort of things. )
The desire to house immigrants often seems to apply to locales removed from the ‘good people’ espousing the immigration.
The truly evil ones are the hypocrites that want to seem virtuous, but don’t want to do any of the messy part themselves. The people who realistically say they don’t want to make the necessary sacrifices are only being honest, not evil. It seems very few people really want a great bunch of immigrants in their own back yard.
https://www.npr.org/2022/09/16/1123521033/marthas-vineyard-m...
Just as easy as you can live in a wealthy enclave, far from the messy logistics of processing immigrants while virtue signaling that the unfortunate hosts are bad people for saying ‘slow down’. The level of entitlement is appalling.
Just exactly where do you propose the immigrants should live? Designated places far from the nice, wealthy enclaves?
Wherever they can afford to like everyone else.
Immigrants are just like us. In fact I was also an immigrant - nobody bussed us anywhere. Just find a place to rent and that’s it.
When the immigrants become self-sufficient, locations of their choosing are ideal.
When the immigrants are not yet self-sufficient, it seems best to avoid large populations in concentrated areas. ( This brings overwhelmed schools, healthcare systems, and other shared infrastructure, to the disadvantage of both the immigrants and the citizen population.)
They live where they can afford, just like everyone else. Flying/busing people to some random neighborhood is nothing more than a political stunt at the expense of the lives these politicians are toying with.
There might have been a legitimate point if Tiny DickSantis had found them places to stay (paid or otherwise), but yet they were made to move on. But the only things you're demonstrating are your needs to stop being so gullible and to examine your own filter bubble.
Do you think Obama was wrong, and was he evil in your eyes? Remember, he used ICE exactly the same way Trump is using ICE. ICE leadership is even the same team Obama used.
https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2014/1...
Biden had sharply changed direction from what prior administrations had done, including Obamas. Biden did not only fail to secure the border ( he claimed only Congress could do that, which Trump definitively disproved ), but he even sold off materials being used to build the border. Remember the huge caravans of immigrants arriving and passing through the border? Governors of states most affected were doing their best to protect their constituents.
Biden would not listen to reason. He continued to defy precedent and logic ( again, completely reversing Obamas actions ). He needed a wake up call.
That’s why DeSantis did what he did. The people of Martha’s Vinyard played perfect stooges, using the National Guard to move the immigrants out of their back yard immediately.
Now for you. Was Obama evil for doing what every other president except Biden did? Were the people that voted for Obama evil?
FWIW I did not vote for Obama either time. If you want to talk about the evil things that he did, a much easier starting touchstone is the extrajudicial drone assassinations.
Also FWIW I don't have strong feelings on the actual immigration issue here! If people were being arrested in an orderly fashion based on good faith investigation per case, by officers with public identities and systems of accountability, given due process opportunity to possibly show they are a citizen or otherwise here legally, held in clean humane conditions, with all of this publicly documented to show the whole process was above board - I'd have very little problem! The problem is exactly the manner in which this is being done - masked paramilitary gangs wholesale assaulting civil society in American cities, using some God-knows-what dowsing rod app to scan people and declare them uncitizens (thereby not worthy of human rights), then being disappeared from interested people (eg family, attorneys), and held in concentration camps or shipped off to foreign countries. This destroys the rule of law and Constitutional rights for all of us. And if you really can't understand this, then you need a crash course in individual Liberty to get your head screwed on quick. The way I see it, the immigration issue is essentially just a pretext.
Remembering that Obama built the steel cages for immigrants, I believe you are not placing blame only on the present administration. I find that fair.
FWIW, the ACLU takes a similar stance. They condemn Trump strongly, and condemned Obama just as strongly. I find no fault with their reasoning there, either.
I'm placing blame on the present administration for its presently ongoing actions, which could be stopped in the present. There's little reason to talk about Obama unless we're doing some detached post-mortem about the slow process of our country being destroyed. But as to the present actions - even if you want to characterize them as part of a slow slide longer arc, that still implies that the current incarnation is the worst yet.
No, the truly evil ones are the people that designed, approved and created alligator alcatraz
The people in charge of the abuse
Anybody who still thinks this is about immigration or the labor market is basically deluding themselves. The focus on illegal immigrants is merely being used as a pretext to justify an end-run around the Constitution, limited government, and basic human rights for all of us, period.