Comment by dmorgan | Hacker News Reader

Comment by dmorgan | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

>Can we find some other way to convey this message without using that same tired old phrase over and over and over again? As soon as I see this phrase by brain automatically shuts down because it tells me the author lacks creativity.

You keep using this word "creativity". I don't think it means what you think it means.

Not to mention that he didn't want to be "creative", he just wanted to make a specific point. Do you avoid common programming idioms because they've been "done before" or do you just use what is more effective for what you want to build?

>Are people who post to nerd forums really that deficient in English language skills? Or are they just hoplessly compelled to mimic the language used by others?

Or do they merely want to use the colloquiums of their day, their trade and their pop culture? How about that?

>Future posters: Let's be creative and devise another way to state this.

Or let's not. I can understand the intention and the purpose of that phrase in less time than it takes to even read it properly (because I can pattern-recognition the letter shapes it consists off). It's a very common and well understood idiom. It's also kind of fun.

Oh man, I lol'd when you wrote "don't think it means what you think it means". Whether it was intended or not, you have cured my annoyance. I guess a laugh was all that was needed. Thank you! Carry on with the mindless memes.

(I did initially get an upvote for stating the annoyance, so anyone else who is annoyed by this meme, good luck. I feel your pain.)

When I said creative, I meant creative use of language. Yes, memes are extraordinarily popular in forums like Slashdot, Reddit and HN. But I only attribute creativity to the person who created the meme, not the ones who use it incessantly... unless they use it in some creative way, as you did (if indeed you were making a joke).

Idioms. Yes. I take your point. I never looked at memes that way, although I have certainly relied on idioms for learning computer languages.

>When I said creative, I meant creative use of language. Yes, memes are extraordinarily popular in forums like Slashdot, Reddit and HN. But I only attribute creativity to the person who created the meme, not the ones who use it incessantly... unless they use it in some creative way, as you did (if indeed you were making a joke).

Well, I was. I see your pain in a way, I myself have some pet peeves when it comes to language. This particular case I found innocent enough, like using stock phrases like "shit hits the fan" or "out of your league", "to die for", etc.

While I get that part about the person who created the meme being the most creative, meme's get their power and significance from repetition. It's kind of a "network effect", where the more people use the same meme, the more impact it gets in conveying its message. In essence it's like proverb creation, only now we get to track it in real time through the internet.

Beating on the dead horse a little more... (stock phrase :)

The thing that bugs me about "doesn't mean what you think" phrase (in general... forget its use in this thread) is that in my opinion no one can know what someone else is thinking. It's presumptuous to imply that one knows what someone else is thinking. At least, it comes across that way to me. The issue seems to be that things can have multiple definitions. And two people may be operating with different definitions. But unless someone clearly states x means y, then I find it presumptuous for anyone to say to that someone, "I know what your definition is". What they are really doing is taking a guess. In my opinion.

The examples of stock phrases you gave are qualitatively different from something like "doesn't mean what you think it means". I'm not sure how to describe the difference. Maybe they are metaphors? I don't know. But they are different. For one, they don't on their own presume anything about anyone else.

Repetition is fine up to a point. Maybe it's like a song. Even if it's a good song, if you listen to it too many times in a short period of time, it loses something. You may not even want to hear it anymore. Too much of a good thing. Stock phrase #2.

> It's presumptuous to imply that one knows what someone else is thinking.

I agree and sympathize. But incidentally, the original use of that phrase was not so presumptuous. In case you (or anyone reading this) don't know, the original quote is from the movie "The Princess Bride", where one character repeatedly says that some possible event would be "inconceivable" and then that event happens--he also exclaims that some events that have just happened are "Inconceivable!". Another character tells him, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." It's "don't think it means", not "doesn't mean": this contains a proper amount of uncertainty for being a deduction about someone's likely thoughts based on observation of their actions.

And, as a matter of fact, cynicalkane's comment was similar: "I don't think [thing] means what you think it means." Also he didn't include an adaptation of the "You keep using that word" part--I would have found that irritating, being an excessive use of movie references that would make nonsensical writing if the movie didn't exist--but cynicalkane's comment flows naturally, and I consider it a proper use of the phrase. I can only assume that you have seen a bunch of other comments using the presumptuous form (if we want to be grumpy old men, we might say "perversion") of the quote, and cynicalkane's comment was similar enough that you thought of the other comments and decided to complain here. (I haven't actually seen the presumptuous form myself, though I'm willing to believe you've seen it enough to be irritated--and a quick google suggests it does have a large presence. I'd probably be annoyed too.)

Reply on news.ycombinator.com