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I have so many disagreements with this post.

I know plenty of people in the food industry that are constantly trying new things at home and while staying late/early at work. I even know bartenders that are playing around with things at home. How many grease monkeys work at a shop on other people's cars yet go home and continue to turn a wrench on their own project car? My grandfather was a custom cabinet maker, and was always trying new things as a hobby project to be able to offer something different to his clients that other builders did not offer. There a plenty of people in non-software professions that like to push themselves outside of work. Just because you don't know any does not mean they do not exist.

Every industry has a group of employees that are essentially just there for a paycheck. This is not a unique thing to the software industry. The flip side of your deeming people lazy/not passionate for not wanting to work for free is that perspective is just off. Just because someone has other commitments does not mean they are lazy. Having a family tends to cut into free time during nights and weekends. Being lazy would mean doing nothing during that time, and I can assure you people busy with family would also love to have time for doing nothing.

This just boils down to people really not understanding personal/work life balance. It just so happens that young people that seem "hungry and passionate" because they spend so much time at work are also people that tend to not have family which affords them a lot of this "passion time" for growing. It's a very simple and normal situation in people's growth. Not being able to recognize that for what it is to me is the thing that should be really questioned.

There is also a huge difference between “hey I am leaving at 5 because I have life outside of the job” and “hey I just collect paychecks here”.

A long time ago, I had a co-worker that would stand next to the time clock with card in hand ready to "get those goose eggs" by swiping out exactly at 5:00. In the morning, he'd stand there waiting to swipe in at 8:29 until it said 8:30. In his words, "I give them what they give me, 40 hours".

Of course you will find some professions where work and hobby overlap, but that does not hold for most professions out there. Most of the working world will clock out and mentally check out as soon as the workday is over. Even when only counting professional work.

I have plenty of hobbies that I can't wait until 5 so I can get back to them. I actually get mad when I realize I'm thinking about work outside of work hours. My hobbies all lean toward the creative side making things by hand, but even that sometimes entails using a computer. Just because it involves using a computer does not mean it's work related. For work, I code and build workflows. For hobbies, I dabble at making graphic design that is just a notch or two better than amateur. I've even coded a few hobby projects to build electronic stuff for my photography adventures.

I really feel like you personally might have a problem separating work/life if you're this emotional about it. If you really think that software peeps are the only ones that have this issue, it comes across as you not being able to see the forest through the trees, you might be too scoped in, or any other similar saying you want to use. You're definitely painting with a very broad brush, and it's not coming across well as you're now painting me into something I most certainly am not.

There's a saying in live audio: I mix for free. I get paid to haul equipment.

I code for free. I get paid to deal with JIRA, Zoom meetings, and the Bay Area.

Programming is pretty lucky that there is also large demand for programmers, and the product is high grossing, because the salaries are good. Most other fields with a passion component are low paying. Almost all of the arts Film, Music, Writing, Art pay very low if you are not the absolute top of the field. Millions of people are out there writing short stories, drawing manga, shooting student films, etc for free to land jobs for salaries that the average CS grad would laugh at.

We're in that position because the work is both hard and appears hard. The kneejerk response most people have to a wall of source code is to run in terror. We know that "being able to read the moon runes" is not the valuable part of our profession, but it has served as a convenient first line of defense. People are more willing to pay ridiculous sums of money to people doing things "I could never", as opposed to "I could, if I wanted to". Art mostly is in the "is hard, looks easy" category. Just look at the average person's response to Barnett Newman's paintings, for example.

IMO, this is the most imminent risk with vibecoding. Not that it'll reduce the demand for software developers, but that it'll damage the perceived difficulty of our work.

I agree with the last part, but in many ways that had already been done or at least accelerated in the era of bootcamps.

I had the displeasure of working with more than a few folks who got into it for the money and claimed it was easy, who thought it was a job of mainly Googling and copy pasting. The sad thing is that these people often survive fine in a big enough org.

Yeah, maybe I'm gatekeeping a bit, but it felt like it really cheapened the image of the job.

But you're right, vibecoding is likely going to accelerate such diminishing further.

> You don’t see investment bankers / lawyers / management consultants / etc. go on about side projects, leveling up their skills during the weekend, and other things that are considered completely normal in this industry.

Maybe not side projects, but their work schedules can be insane when compared to the typical SW engineer.

High performing types in those areas network a lot, and just as much off the clock (or more) as on. From those I know, many of them seem to pick hobbies, friends, holidays, activities, gym, etc that is compatible with connecting with the right people. And that is considered very normal, more ore less expected if aiming for partner type roles.

> I can’t think of too many other professional jobs where the line between hobby and work blends, for so many of its workers.

I would argue that the majority of rank and file programmers are not coding outside of work.

Anecdotally, this is my perception as well- I'd say maybe 5% of the people I've worked with are the "finish software dev workday, then go home and jump right back on the computer" type. Personally, when I'm done my workday, the last thing I want to do is sit back down at a computer (with rare exceptions for inspiration spikes).

>You don’t see investment bankers / lawyers / management consultants / etc. go on about side projects, leveling up their skills during the weekend, and other things that are considered completely normal in this industry.

It is absolutely the case in industries like law and consulting that you are expected to put in time after hours to network with clients/partners, and get certifications.

> "You don’t see investment bankers / lawyers / management consultants / etc. go on about side projects, leveling up their skills during the weekend, and other things that are considered completely normal in this industry."

Lawyers pay up front with an extra three years of law school and a bar exam that only 79% pass on the first try according to https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/first-time-bar-exam... .

Pro bono cases are basically "hobbyist" projects for lawyers - they get to practice their skills, and maybe do some good, but they don't get paid for them.

> You don’t see investment bankers / lawyers / management consultants / etc. go on about side projects, leveling up their skills during the weekend, and other things that are considered completely normal in this industry.

I am very certain that you are at least wrong about management consultants. I know quite some who work on side projects (even though they barely have any time) and/or level up their skills during the few free hours on the weekend.

Thanks for convincing me to give up on my side project.

it's the same in any industry with the exception of insurance and bureaucracy, I think (IMO and from the top of my head)

but I believe no other industry has a greater gap between "i can't believe the shit I (have to) do at work" and "hobby" except in the many cases of voyeurs, stalkers, laissez-faire criminal investigators and passionate MiniTrue partisans, all of which are variations of the "true" human nature of the bulk of the population left after the many wars, including a great many of the ones who came home unharmed but with stories to tell