Ask HN: First startup / cold feet. Any advice ? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: First startup / cold feet. Any advice ?

Hi fellow hackers,

I have been thinking about doing my own startup for a while and I've finally gotten to the point where being really bored at my job at one of the Big Internet Companies, I quit.

Now seems like the best time to start something on my own since I have some money saved up and don't have a lot of responsibilities in my personal life. However, although I do have an idea, albeit not the best one I could think of, I am getting cold feet thinking the following :

- No safety net - No income ... maybe higher expenses - What if the company fails ? I would have lost this time.

Did anyone else here feel the same way when starting their first company ? How did you convince yourself that you should go do your own thing and not go work for another BIG firm with the security and lavish perks etc ?

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What you're feeling is the reason even people like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs needed cofounders. I'd recommend finding one. It will also greatly improve your chances of succeeding.

I'd add a slight caveat to that. This is why it's a good idea to either have a cofounder or have a guru like pg tell you that you won't succeed with a cofounder.

For me, the desire to prove pg wrong supplied all the motivation which is normally supplied by a cofounder. :-)

How do you single-handedly prove wrong a statement like "it helps a lot to have a cofounder"?

I'm not trying to prove that it doesn't help to have a cofounder. In fact, I'd agree that in most cases having a cofounder helps.

It's more that I'd like to demonstrate that there are exceptions -- and so far I can't think of a single instance where having a cofounder would have helped me.

My co-founder is very useful to me, and our business. He has a completely different but complementary skill set and viewpoint. Furthermore, we push each other when things don't look so hot, business-wise. I wouldn't know what to do _without_ a co-founder.

One of the most valuable things a cofounder does is shine light on your blind spots. By definition you can't see these problems, but someone else who's intimately involved can.

A common argument is that it's valuable to have a partner as a sounding board and as a source of moral support. These roles are vital, but they don't necessarily have to be filled by founders. Einstein needed the help of his friend Michele Besso to develop special relativity, but Besso wasn't a coauthor on Zur Elektrodynamik bewegter Körper.

I don't see two as a natural lower bound on the number of founders. As the productivity of individual programmers continues to rise, I expect to see an increasing number of single-founder startups succeed.

I have also come to the same conclusion independently.

You need a sounding board and a source of moral support absolutely. This is best done by a co-founder. However, it CAN also be done by someone who is not a co-founder and more of an advisor.

Also, you do NOT absolutely need co-founders with complimentary skills. That is a myth. Larry and Segie did not have complimentary skills. Bill Gates and Paul Allen did NOT have ALL the skills required to build their business. They had or developed (read learned) a lot of skills on the way, for which they could not hire immidiately - which is the only thing that is required of a founding team.

like showing a case where having a cofounder gives zero or even negative progress?

there should be plenty

Please, yes, for the love of all that is holy, get a co-founder. If you can convince someone else to go in with you, then you've done a good enough sales job that you'll be able to get customers.

"If you can convince someone else to go in with you, then you've done a good enough sales job that you'll be able to get customers."

Sorry, but that's terrible advice IMHO. You could convince any number of people to be co-founders... That doesn't mean in any way that they would be an asset, or that your startup has any legs. Convincing 1 person isn't that hard a job (For some values of person).

I think you should amend that to something like "If you can convince someone to quit their job, and go in with you, who you also think would be an asset, and be able to work with..."

I wouldn't let the lack of a cofounder stop you from trying. If you start on something you can handle on your own, you'll:

1. better understand your strengths (i.e. what you have to offer)

2. better understand your weaknesses (i.e. what you'd like in a cofounder)

3. know how to get started. (huge!)

All of these things will make you a more valuable partner in the future. While a cofounder could bring value, I wouldn't consider the lack of cofounder a deal breaker for moving forward.

Great post.

Do you recommend finding one from anywhere though? Or checking with the people you already know that you think would be a good fit.

I'd agree with the latter, but I think finding a co-founder from scratch is a pretty massive task. Like harder than being a single founder and succeeding (If you're determined enough).

Seems like the best co-founders are people you went to school/college with, or worked with, or worked together on open source - all things that take time.

Having no co-founder is better than settling for a less than great co-founder surely?

Yes, I'd certainly recommend a cofounder (a) you already know and (b) who's technically very good.

It's an interesting question how bad a cofounder would have to be before no cofounder would be better. I think as long as you got along well with someone and they encouraged you to work, they could be pretty middling technically and still be a net win. Merely having someone enthusiastic to bounce ideas off could easily make you 2x more productive than you might be alone.

Sure, I think family can provide some of that motivation/sounding board (My wife is bored to death of me talking to her about Mibbit, but she listens, nods, makes comments :) Sometimes it seems helpful just to say ideas out loud).

I think though that the 'encouraged you to work' can quickly be fulfilled by your users once things take off. There's nothing more motivating than users emailing with feature requests, or telling you something is broken.

For me, the biggest irritation not having a co-founder has been the ups and downs. When I think "this thing sucks! It's stupid it's all wrong it's broken rubbish I should stop it now", there's no other co-founders to balance that out.

I'd agree with the 2x more productive being possible. Also very cool if you start to get competitive with each other - "Bet I can get this new feature done by end of the day" etc

I know what you mean. I do the same thing with my girlfriend, sometimes you need to just tell someone so you don't blab to the wrong people.

Co-founders are nice for a good checks and balances type system, to see if you're new ideas are on some sort of right path.

I always wonder about this. Often is difficult to find someone (even if you know them) who is even remotely as motivated as you are about the product. It's even harder to find someone to take the huge dive too, especially if they aren't as gung-ho about what you're doing as you are.

What happens when you find the person, make the deal to bring them on board and their work input/contributions are minimal? What happens when they don't make attempts to help out the way you expected? I think this happens a lot and it's aggravating because it's wasted time and creates a strained relationship.

I've found just building it on your own first as a means to prove what you're talking about is more convincing then just talking about it. Most people aren't leaders, they are followers. Most friends I've had aren't as interested or bail during the "idea phase" and then are "ready to help" when I've iterated a few times.

It probably depends on your personality. It used to help me work to talk to my dog. On the other hand, some of my friends can only work with a closed door.

> I think as long as you got along well with someone and they encouraged you to work, they could be pretty middling technically and still be a net win.

Hi!

I think you've got two options: Have a cofounder, or have a counsel. A counsel would be people you greatly admire that are in your corner during the really ugly, dismal, brutal alone knock-down kicked-in-the-teeth "where the hell do I go from here?" moments. And there'll be plenty of them.

I know not everyone is a Tim Ferriss fan here, but this particular blog post is brilliant:

http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2008/10/03/harnessing-e...

Having a counsel of people you can go to is a viable option instead of a cofounder in my opinion, but it's hard to put said counsel together without blazing away in business for a few years.

s/counsel/council/.

A council is a group of people from whom you seek counsel.

Totally agree that having a co-founder helps, but totally DISAGREE that either that is the solution to your cold-feet, or that is absolute required to do a startup.

Also, I think there is little reason to believe that either bill gates or steve jobs got over their cold feet because of co-founders. Not to say that having co-founders might be a big reason behind their massive success. but at the same time they might have had smaller successes without co-founders.

So, to be more specific, do absolutely spend time in finding a co-founder or advisors that you can confide too, but again get over the cold-feet before that.

Getting over the cold-feet is a two step process: Do it directly and quickly.

1. Cross over to startup land by quiting your job already. 2. Burn the bridge by telling everyone, your friends, family, (now) old colleagues that you are doing a startup.

Always remember, the only way you will get around to fighting the devil is when the deep sea is behind you.

Random advice you'll need: Spend as much time as you possible can trying to get money.

Just start now. Get some money.

Do it. Get some money. Are you spending time getting money? No? Do it! Stop redesigning your website. Get some money.

Product's rough? Offer it for 20% of what you'll sell it for later, with free upgrades. Do it. Get some money.

Are you spending time getting some money? Spend more time getting money.

Man... get some money. Stop messing around with a logo. You don't need a logo. You need money.

Improving the product? I actually spend waaaay too much time historically doing product development. I understand. But STOP! And get some money.

Get some money, man. From customers or clients. Beg for money, barter for money, work for money, do way more than you'd ever reasonably do for some money.

Just get some f*ing money, man. Money means people value your things and you're on the right track. Get money. ASAP. Especially in your first business. Money means you can sell, money means you can get loans, money means the business banker takes you seriously, money means they break the rules and wipe off charges for you (or give you telephone wire-transfer access before you're qualified, which you need to pay people when you're outside the USA traveling, and trying to get money from some people in Berlin). Money means you get lines of credit, or net-30 terms instead of paid up front. Money means later, you can pay people to do the most horrible aspects of your business once you've fully mastered them. Money means you're doing something of value.

Mate - stop designing your logo and color scheme, and get some money. It's the only way.

Great job. While such a discussion really makes me miss Startup News, the more posts like this, the merrier, for me.

Don't think about the worst case scenario if you start a business. Think about the worst case scenario if you don't do a startup.

You are 40. Every day you work 9 - 6 at the BIG firm. Even after getting promoted several times, getting the corner cubicle in the process, you are a relative nobody amongst the other 1000 managers. You hate your job and you may be starting to hate your life. There have been 5 different economic slumps during your career, having you worry about your job and your family's survival every time.

The opposite case: You have started and sold two companies and are now working on the third one, after taking an year-long sabbatical in Egypt. True, your first startup failed and you had to eat ramen for a few months, but it only made you stronger, and no one remembers that now.

Of course, I'm exaggerating a little, but you get the idea. You will experience failures, but that's the small price everyone has to pay when they aim for the sky.

Did anyone else here feel the same way when starting their first company?

Yes. I'd go on a limb and say that everybody feels that way when starting their first company. I'm on it right now and feeling it most certainly.

I convince myself by reminding me that I believe in the business model and in my skills, I honestly think I can pull it off.

In the beginning make sure you believe in your thing and try to be realistic about your planning. Base everything on pessimistic assumptions. How long will it take you to launch something, how long until you can realistically expect your first $1 of income? What unknowns are there and how will you deal with them? Write down your most important figures, juggle them around in excel, make sure to have a good feeling for what you're getting yourself into. If the figures say you can't do it then re-think your idea. If the figures say you can do it then try again with more pessimistic assumptions. A good business model looks promising even under most pessimistic assumptions. You definately want one that's robust enough to still work even when many factors turn out less than ideal.

Also make sure to realize that it will be much harder than you can possibly imagine. You definately need persistence. Easily more of that than you've ever needed before in your life. Stuff will go wrong, people will tell you that your idea sucks, work will overwhelm you. Be prepared to handle that without losing focus. Never panic. Don't torn yourself apart by trying to do everything at once.

If you think you have enough discipline to manage that then, by all means, do it. Remember you don't have much to lose. You can stop at any time and the expiriences you gained will help you either way.

Agreed. <i>Everybody</i> feels that way when starting their first company.

You will fail, especially if it's your first time. Many of the most successful entrepreneurs in the world failed 6-7 times before they figured it out.

The best thing about failing is learning why you failed. If you're afraid of failing, you should give up now because you're not cut out for this thing.

Depending where you are in life, you'll need to assess your risk. It's going to be hard if you have a wife and kids.

I didn't fail my first time. And you're not guaranteed to fail by any means so please don't let anyone convince you of that.

I have never recommended a Paul Graham essay on this site (something that I'll never be able to claim again), but I highly recommend you read this one:

"How Not to Die" (August 2007) http://www.paulgraham.com/die.html

heh, "failing" is subjective and is dependent on certain variables (e.g. connections, capital, experience, etc)

If he plans on becoming a multi-million dollar company and this is his first time, then I would say, yes he will fail and that's not a bad thing. You have to work at it a few times before it works out. Sure you can get lucky but I am trying to be a bit more pragmatic.

Yep, you will fail - but it won't be wasted time. Even if you go back to the corporate world, any manager with two brain cells will think you're more interesting because you went out and started your own company - whether or not it succeed. It's like a mini-MBA.

Also, it will forever resolve that interview question "Describe a time when you showed initiative."

You won't lose anything, because you'll compress a lot of learning into that time. Just be quick to release, because you start learning after you release, not before.

Pre release is like building a boat. Post release is like sailing out in a storm.

Thanks for the prompt replies, everyone ! I do understand the importance of a co-founder and am in talks with a couple of people I worked with before.

A couple of reasons why I am hesitating are :

1. I feel like I should get some experience in a startup before I start my own.

2. I know the idea has merit but I haven't done any market research yet so it might end up worth nothing.

Do you guys think one should work for a startup before starting one's own ? Is the experience VERY helpful ?

I thought about doing that but then I feel I wouldn't have as much control over the proceedings as I would like to have... to take the company in a particular direction.

I have worked in a startup before (in fact, I have worked only for startups in my life) but I don't think that's necessarily a prerequisite to starting your own.

When you enter a "classic", funded startup as an employee then you won't get in touch with the meaty details outside your area of expertise more than you would in a conventional company. Thus the "new" aspects about founding a company remain new, even if you went through one as an employee before.

Another great post. Wow, you guys are awesome today.

I'm in a similar situation and looking for one too. Contact me (email in my profile).

At the end of Feb, I will have gone one year without a job. By choice. I spent that time finishing grad school and working to get some things off the ground.

I used to have cold feet and sometimes I really hated my own guts for throwing my savings away for what felt like "spinning my wheels". I was also afraid of losing my bargaining power/credibility in my old community the longer I spent time away from it (unfounded fear FYI). Oh and I had months where I felt like I wasn't making progress fast enough and I had many days full of questioning myself. I should note I launched two projects during this time that saw very little interest--finding this out early is a great argument for release early, release often.

Anyways, there is a happy stop gap in here somewhere. I launched a project in November and it gained interest and started making money. The profits are nothing huge but making that first $1 is huge to developing that entrepreneurial confidence. Its a small milestone but celebrate it anyways.

Now I'm getting close to ready with my big startup effort. Its based on one of the aforementioned failures but I'm using the lessons I learned and I'm really excited about it.

It took awhile but after a few breakthroughs I'm glad I took the jump. If I don't succeed now, I feel its certain I will later. Each effort I'm learning different things and starting to develop a mental model of what works and what doesn't.

Its one thing to read "write to bloggers to help market your product". Its another to write to them get zero response, refine your pitch, add a mediakit, and then try again and succeed.

My point is--you may have some growth to experience before you're ready to run a successful company. However, no matter how much growth you've got to go through, you may as well start now. It doesn't happen on its own.

Oh last point--to quit your job is a decision only you can make. I find when my personal needs are met its hard to force myself to do things that are painful but necessary for growth (i.e. get started). Even when I had significant savings left, I still felt too comfortable. Seeing my savings dwindle offered a great kick in the ass to move :)

I'm consulting now to meet my financial obligations but am nowhere near comfortable. This makes the whole thing feel like a "mission" and I love it. YMMV.

Good luck!

Keep that feeling, it's your biggest asset. The moment you lose it is when you should be looking out real hard for trouble because it is bound to happen.

Insecurity at some level is one of the biggest drives to succeed, even if most successful entrepreneurs would never admit to it.

There is no such thing as a 'failed' startup, there are no such things as 'bad questions'. Even the worst startup experience will teach you more than years of business theory will ever do and even the most silly question deserves to be heard and answered in a serious way.

Don't let anything or anybody stand in your way of trying and give it your best, you'll probably be amazed how far that will get you on momentum alone.

For me the turning point came when I was out of a job and my gf was pregnant, it was all or nothing and it worked out pretty good, 15 years and counting. I'd never go back to a day job no matter what the compensation and 'perks', there is no better perk than to know that you are moving under your own power.

When I was talking to one of the local luminaries in the startup scene he said something that seemed really "on":

"It's uncertain what the worth of your startup will be. However, you can be certain that your personal worth will grow enormously."

If you approach your first startup as one of the foundational personal education experiments that you'll go through it's a win-win. Before starting a company I thought I knew something about business. A year in it's amazing how much I've had to learn just to keep things functioning. If you approach it with that mindset, and keep your cash-flow tight, I think you'll find that as a personal investment it's an extremely worthwhile experience -- even if it's just to realize that the startup game isn't for you.

You don't have a safety net? You'll find you don't need much of one. If you have money saved up, reduce your expenses and figure out a time-frame for it to work. By the end of that time frame you can decide what you want to do. You would be surprised how well you can scrape by if you really want to.

What if the company fails? Who cares! You'll learn so much about what you are doing, yourself, and much more that you will benefit either way.

"What if the company fails? I would have lost this time."

You're going to learn a lot while doing this - more than you would have at any corporate job - so regardless of what happens I wouldn't consider your experience a failure. The financial outcome isn't the only metric involved in success.

Having a cofounder != an increased chance of success for your startup. Having the right cofounder that is as excited about your product and is as determined as you are to make something thats awesome will be the difference between failure and success.

Whether you decide to quit your job or not, do the startup anyway.

Thanks for the invaluable advice, everyone. Really appreciate you guys taking out the time to reply !!

I've made the decision ... it's going to be a startup. If nothing else, it will be one dandy adventure !

thanks again!

best of luck!

(and of course I'm really curious what it is that you're going to do).

thank you!

I have a couple of ideas; not sure which one I'd work on (time to do some research). I'll stay on here and be in touch with the community and ofcourse, ask for feedback when I have something to show.

By "no safety net" do you mean no savings? That's how I read it at first. In which case, run, don't walk, away from the startup until you have some in the bank.

BTW, our "startup" is earning money after the first month we shipped. We made $1500 on the first round of 30 day trials. (Now we're up to about $2000, as we're rolling towards 60 days - and thus another wave of charges - but not there yet.)

That's not enough to live on, but you can make money right out of the gate if you:

1. Solve a real business problem.

2. Solve a REAL business PROBLEM. That doesn't mean inventing some new tech thing and then looking for a problem it can theoretically be applied to, & expecting people to eat it up like pigs eat slop.

3. Solve a real BUSINESS problem. If it adds actual bottom-line value, people will pay for it.

And if you're not doing a service people will pay for, you're going to be freaked out until those savings are gone, because your only option will be a buy-out.

EDIT: I have grander plans too beyond this first money-making service, but I do care about it itself, as well. I don't recommend doing something you're going to come to despise to pay the bills. Might as well have a job, at that point.

Work on your project for a couple of months, and see how it feels then.

If you're feeling good about it, do continue, if not, think of something else.

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