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Comment by AndrewDucker | Hacker News Reader

What I want is some hardware that, if Linux stops working on it, it's someone's job to fix that.

Which is why I'm strongly considering a Steam Cube.

What about Framework? They support Fedora and Ubuntu: https://frame.work/fr/en/linux

This is the way I went - Framework feels like the most mainstream way to have hardware that supports Linux, ships to lots of countries, etc. I installed Fedora first with GNOME but now with KDE Plasma. It's been good!

But I will say, after 18 months it's starting to show a little bit of bit rot. E.g. for some reason the bootloader refuses to remember to boot into the most recent kernal/OS combination I have installed - it works if I intervene during boot and manually select it, but it seems to often revert to an older combo. And there are starting to be some odd little bugs with external storage drives and the file browser... I haven't looked too deeply into it, but I expect these are Fedora problems, not Framework problems. Maybe I brought them upon myself by tinkering a bit too much with some drivers (not strictly necessary, I was trying to do some unusual A/V stuff I wouldn't normally bother with, but it was for a friend...)

The great thing about open source is that there’s always at least one person who can take on the job of fixing your obscure hardware problem…you.

The terrible thing is that you are probably unqualified to do driver surgery without taking on more work than the problem is worth to you to fix.

Yeah, with two small kids, the last thing I want to spend my spare time doing is playing with drivers. I want things that just work.

Its not about "you must fix your own software", but that "you CAN fix your own software".

Closed source OSes like MS Windows and OSX dont permit you to see, let alone fix things internally.

Sure. But for most people (even fairly technical people!), that doesn't actually provide any advantage. If one lacks the skills to fix the software, the fact that they have the ability to do so doesn't give them any benefit.

You can fix your own software but it is not at all guaranteed that there is anyone else interested in fixing your particular problem to anything like the level of closed-source OSs.

Another aspect to "just work" is it'd be great if component vendors mentioned the state of linux support. For example with motherboards it's expected that there will be windows drivers and tools there for all the functionality, but while the source of software support is different under linux from looking at a random product page it's a big question mark on which one is wise to buy to get the best experience or if full/partial support is available now or soon. Even for Asus gear which I'm aware has efforts going on for linux (or just their laptops? just their ROG branded laptops?) there's precious little mention of it on product pages to confirm the status.

The last thing anyone would want to spend their spare time is fixing your problems with drivers.

Being able to do it yourself is truly the only liberating thing out there, since paying someone else to do it does not seem to actually work these days (or ever).

The great thing about open source is that there's a whole ecosystem of developers that you can pay to fix your obscure hardware problem. Self-reliance is great, but field servicability without being beholden to the trade secrets of a single monopolist is a much better deal for society.

How common is that? Are there a lot of bounties on defects that actually get paid out?

I installed Bazzite on a NUC, and what it did was really sell me on getting a Steam Machine. Bazzite works well enough, but it has a few small bugs (e.g. performance degrades if I run Gamescope), and my NUC is old and underpowered. The general Steam experience, though, is fantastic.

It's basically a PC console, except it's not locked down to hell, and I already own hundreds of games for it. I'm very excited for the first-party hardware. If it's anything like the Steam Deck, I'm going to love it.

A thinkpad then? Not exactly someones job, but hardware support for them is very good.

It still takes a discerning buyer to avoid the bad models (most of the ones ones with dGPU, etc).

Even if you run fully Valve hardware you are still going to be subject to the usual finicky-ness when connecting external devices (e.g. if you use multiple monitors, issues with the open source AMD GPU drivers; etc.).

This hasn't been my experience with the Steam Deck. I've plugged it into all sorts of shit and it's worked with almost all of it.

https://starlabs.systems

https://system76.com/

RIP Zareason

There's also System76, Tuxedo, Slimbook, a few models of Dell and Lenovo...

you can get that both from Lenovo and Dell

What about a Mac? macOS isn't exactly Linux, but you can run a lot of Linux command line things just fine on it, and Apple will always make sure macOS works 100% on the Macs they sell.

How are they at running all of the games I own on Steam?

meh, there's gotta be a specific Mac port, and there's not much love put into keeping those working when Apple makes breaking changes like "killing 32-bit addressing" or "switching cpu architectures".

Game selection is terrible on a Mac. I find it mindblowing that my Linux desktop/laptop run all my games, bar none, but a very small percentage runs on my Mac.

The exact same underlying software (Wine) that lets you run all of your windows games on Linux using Proton also works on MacOS using Crossover.

I haven't found anything in my steam library that Crossover (wine with a nice GUI) hasn't handled on my Mac yet. I'm sure a bad game exists, but for most games it is seamless.

I tend not to have unrealistic expectations like running AAA titles at high framerates on a mid-tier laptop, and tend to go for indy games, but the games I have run work great.

Native game selection is - in fact - pretty limited, but who cares if it is being run with a compatibility layer if it plays well.

Interesting. I would imagine the experience would be pretty poor (compared to Linux), and that the state of Direct3D/OpenGL/Vulkan to Metal translation to not be very mature or performant.

It absolutely do runs worse than on Linux, it's not equivalent. Do not bother, especially not with newer games.

Yes, it isn't as good as Linux in some cases. It hasn't stopped me from running Cyberpunk on a Macbook though. Nobody is under the impression that a Mac running a translation layer is going to be better than a purpose built machine running native code. But is it not worth bothering, at all? No, there are plenty of circumstances where Steam via Crossover is essentially unnoticable.

Really, though, if we are going to nitpick at "perfect or don't bother" level. Skip linux too, Windows beats both on equivalent hardware.

At least Cyberpunk is now natively available for macOS ;)

About the same as Linux, if you use Crossover. Which is the functional equivalent to Wine/Proton.

This isn't true for Apple silicon, which is the main reason to use a Mac.

Are you just ignoring Rosetta translation? You can totally run x86_64 windows games just fine on Apple silicon.

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