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Comment by zerosizedweasle | Hacker News Reader

I just want out. I don't know how to put this but at the deepest level what's happening right now is making me sick. So many people below the poverty line barely making it by and then you have this stuff and Wallstreet Bets. Michael Saylor tops them all. Decadent and depraved. S&P at all time records and SNAP benefits not being renewed. I hate it here.

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> So many people below the poverty line barely making it by and then you have this stuff and Wallstreet Bets.

I agree the juxtaposition demonstrates how callous our society is - but would you agree that these are two entirely independent things, though? (i.e. we could have eliminated poverty while still having irrationally overpriced BTC; or maybe in the future when BTC's value eventually reverts back to 2 pizzas we will still have poverty and destitution.

In theory that would be great, but that isn't what is happening, it's getting progressively more debauched year after year. I'm not saying Stalinism or nothing, but I don't see the people with power doing anything beyond helping out the already wealthy. It's grotesque.

I don't think it's independent. I think part of the reason for the rise of gambling in all its forms of late is a certain nihilism/despair among the younger generation (one that's not really unjustified; the median under-30 citizen now has no reasonable hope of ever owning a home anywhere where they could earn enough to support themselves, much less a family, for example).

There's a subreddit called exactly that, r/iwantout. Turns out the grass is not actually greener on the other side, because, for many people, wherever you go, there you are, as the saying goes.

Be careful, the grass is greener in other countries, but not perfect. I feel sorry if you live in the U.S.

As a fellow American said: "I don't think about you at all."

That's kind of the point... and hardly surprising, you don't think at all.

Come on now, this sort of stuff breaks the rules of this site.

I don't expect it to be better, it's just soul crushing to see this happen in the place I grew up. Soul destroying. It's such a let down on a whole society scale. Maybe I would be less emotionally attached to what is going on somewhere else. This all just makes me feel like vomiting.

It can be equally soul destroying once you move there too. I know it can feel hopeless currently but for most people the solution isn't to move to a new place but to actually fix the issues they're having at home, as it's often more personal than governmental, unless you're in some active warzone.

There are posts there like this that make the point better than I can: https://www.reddit.com/r/IWantOut/s/g7L2i4OKyI

The only way out is through direct action.

Yeah, but it feels like shouting into the void.

Ask the dragon nicely to give up it's gold

The whole point of the crypto market is decentralization. So who do you want to act?

The whole point of the government is to ban harmful externalities like crypto speculation.

That’s not the point of the government.

I think there's a real concern that giving governments (particularly imperialist governments with the ability to project massive force both domestically and in foreign affairs) the power to criminalize voluntary economic activity tends to entrench wealth and power rather than to lubricate mobility.

Moreover, while the government can have a fairly significant impact on Wall St., ForEx, and on interest rates and worldwide financial markets (though in each of these cases, it seems that despite perhaps well-intentioned regulations, the norms and fraud, abuse, and predatory instruments), there are even worst second-order effects when huge governments attempt to meddle in areas where they can exert relatively little control, as exemplified by drug prohibition for example.

It's not obvious what banning crypto speculation might have - it will surely make crypto (and speculative crypto instruments) more valuable in some markets due to the smuggling risk - is that likely to be assistive to whomever you're trying to help?

> real concern that giving governments...the power to criminalize voluntary economic activity tends to entrench wealth and power rather than to lubricate mobility

Uh, sure. But this isn't a real political phenomenon. When concerns arise around power and wealth entrenchment, the solution has never been to reduce the state's power to regulate the economy.

> When concerns arise around power and wealth entrenchment, the solution has never been to reduce the state's power to regulate the economy.

I'm not sure why you believe that. For example, The fall of the Soviet Union - in some ways the most significant economic restructuring of the 20th century - was precisely that.

Fair enough. (Granted, not well read on that event.)

“People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.” — Adam Smith

It was. Governments either fell behind on crypto or were in on it. [1][2] The laws for the physical equivalents were applied in the early 19th century. It is repeating all over again.

[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpqreZlmHGU [video][7 mins]

[2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_o3nZHzCwA [video][4 mins]

I mean this less about crypto directly and more about the current state of the economy and society. The K economy with the top living in over the top decadence while below it's living day to day, barely getting by for a huge number of people. Bitcoin hoarders are just the most glaring symbol of that.

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