C100 Developer Terminal
caligra.com
caligra.com
And also "Commercial-grade media support". Those two things are at odds, aren't they?
And why is it a "terminal" and not a "computer"? Is it because "terminal" is a geeky word?
And no pictures, other than the very obvious render? How thick is it? What kind of connectivity/ports does it have? Is it completely flat, or wedge shaped? Can the keyboard be detached somehow? What's the deal with those weird keys? What does it look on the inside? What's the software that it's actually using? What WM is that? Can I install it on my laptop? Where is the source code? So many questions.
It looks a lot like vapourware to me. And at that price point, I'm not sure who is going to buy that.
We, developers, are also "common computer users". Just like a sound engineer, a graphic designer, a movie editor, or any specialist, really, has fancy hard- and software, but remains also a "general user".
I have to do my taxes. Write a CV, or a speech. I have to make a presentation. I want to watch netflix. Listen to spotify. Must use trello, read my email, or use that abysmal internal time tracker. Play a game. Order new sneakers. Find a restaurant. And no, I don't do all that in emacs, terminal, bash scripts and lynx. Like every "general computer user" I use my computer for those things as well.
Despite what Hollywood makes it look like, developers, hackers, sw architects, sw engineers etc do use the stuff that everyone uses as well. Commonly and often.
It's not common amongst any of the developers I see in my bubble. Could be my bubble. And it doesn't mean this practice of having one machine for all uses, is actually "good".
Though personally, i'd dislike the idea of having to maintain, update, etc multiple machines. And to sync data/logins/documents/tools between the two.
I like grepping through my "Administration/invoices". I prefer putting "Documents/contracts/" under git, eventhough all are pdfs and word. I need my todo-list to be a mix of work related and personal tasks.
Also, I listen spotify when I work. I check or answer work and personal mail when waiting for a meeting to start. I use my notes for work and private. Same for password manager, calendar.
In my case, the line is too blurred to be able to switch between machines. Theyll very much overlap, making having two a burden rather than a benefit.
But that's me.
Some companies are strict about firewalling corporate data in, but I think it's also important for us to protect ourselves by keeping our personal data out.
I do keep a browser profile on the work machine signed into personal accounts, and do everything personal only in that browser, but even that is probably a mistake. Screen-sharing to home would be a much better compromise, unfortunately my gigabit internet comes with like 50Mbps upload so screen sharing sucks.
Not everything in the world is a browser.
I'm guessing they're targeting people who currently use something like a Bloomberg terminal and used the word "terminal" because that community already used it.
I'm vaguely interested in looking at new window managers. I3 is nice but isn't perfect. I'm happy to look at new ways of doing things. It seems a bit retro to tie a specific WM or a specific Distro to a specific bit of hardware. Sort of like a MBP with macOS.
Idk, 96GB of Ram and 1TB of storage on a Mac Studio is $3999. At least this one comes with a keyboard.
- Calligra with two 'l's is the name of a KDE office suite.
- Why does the keyboard have macOS keys? At least as a Linux user, I've felt like most Linux desktops reflect the Windows keyboard layout more.
- Can I have pictures of the internals of the machine, or is this a 3D rendering?
- The Workbench OS makes a lot of claims that I want more information about. Is this a rice on a common WM or something they made themselves? Why is it "suitable for sovereign and secure deployments"? Won't having homebrew and DNF lead to conflicts (this is more of a general question, since I genuinely don't know)?
Nonetheless, I have to say that it does look cool from a design perspective, and with the pace of DRAM prices, maybe the actual system price won't actually be that crazy in a few months.
Content over presentation is a signal for quality more than ever.
I highly doubt anyone is “dailying” an Amiga today for any actual work (other than retro fun), so I suspect there won’t be even a single person who expects this to be compatible with Amiga.
Likewise anyone looking for like a FPGA new Amiga hardware knows anything that says it’s got a Ryzen is not the droid they’re looking for.
It doesn't have device "drivers", it has device travellers.
When you go to shut it down it pops up an annoying dialogue box saying that its "First Amendment Rights Are Being Violated" that won't go away, even though it's made in Shoreditch which is nowhere near the US and therefore the US constitution is about as relevant as Kenya's.
any computer can be for “experts”, but that’s not the same as delivering something preconfigured and opinionated.
nobody has actually seen this thing in action yet, but in my head it’s hardware + some opinionated linux distro (i imagine something like omarchy) + support.
certainly not what everybody would want, but if there are people that enjoy configuring their systems then there’s people that don’t.
It seems like stuff like this is more about presenting an “identity “ instead of actually doing anything real. My immediate assumption from seeing someone with this would be that they are more about appearing to do a thing than actually doing it… so perhaps a good ux designer.
[1]: https://www.pentagram.com/news/caligra-computers-for-experts
Definitely not a company with deep experience of developer culture.
I expect this will look slick and have a few nice features, but there's going to be a lot of "How do I...?" "No."
The whole project looks like a special edition collectors item, not something anyone would use.
I get that economies of scale don't apply to something so niche, but that's just a bad deal. I'd rather get Framework Desktop.
https://liliputing.com/kernelcom-is-a-compact-mini-laptop-wi...
Alas, this is more of a BBC B / Amiga format nostalgia fest, from the homeland of the hipster dads, Central Shoreditch.
This device could certainly add real value though if the OS / hardware integration gets nailed. That is, after all, where the Raspberry Pi really shone brightly: defining a standardised and working platform.
Old enough to remember when the hipsters moved in, I feel vindicated. Vindicated!
(I like the beeb/amiga comparison, and I like the textured case, but I don't like the left-hand numpad).
I'm curious what the physical size of the machine is. Is it GPD MicroPC-sized or are we talking about a normal laptop? 100g or 10kg?
When I worked in a call center I learned to use the Data General terminal's keypad to type in people's credit card numbers as fast as people could say them. I would not want to use this keypad because I wouldn't be able to use my right hand on it, and that's the hand that knows the keypad. Then again, I don't do that much numeric data entry these days.
What's the ⌘ "interesting feature" key for?
But what I mean is, what X-Windows keysym and modifier does it map to?
I’m sorry; none of this is new to me except the absurd price tag.
Historically I've done some heavy spreadsheet work where the resting position of my hands which minimizes movement is right hand on the mouse, left hand on the 10 keys. On a normal keyboard that has the disadvantage of causing a "closed" posture which isn't entirely comfortable.
Outside of that kind of niche use case though, it definitely feels like a strange choice for developers.
$100 to have the rights to reserve one? That's really nice of them.
Well... Good luck guys!
I paid £100 for a couple of old Thinkpad T430s, one of which I needed to spend a further £30 on to replace the battery.
That would leave me with a lot of change from the two grand I kind of don't have to spend on a toy computer that they won't even publish specs for.
A back of a beermat business idea, pulled through an expensive marketing machine.
My rule of thumb: if something has a concrete price, but the something itself isn't made yet, it's either way too expensive or a ploy or both.
Maybe its a "find if there's need for it" phase. But if you cannot make that "it" concrete, I -and I suspect many more of the target audience- cannot answer this question.
So yes: kudos for bringing up the "developers need other hard and software than general audience" idea. But I would strongly advice to first make it concrete and deliver pieces and parts. Release the DE and OS so we can experience if this solves "problems" that devs have. Finetune that. Again. And again. Then pair it with hardware. Personally, I'd go for hardware thats already popular with devs.
For me, thatd be: Ship me a high end Lenovo, with Ubuntu¹ pre-installed and loaded with software like neovim, zsh, git, ripgrep, chrome, firefox, zed, slack (we all require it, don't we?) vscode. Maybe some icing like starship, a nice theme. It could be opinionated or extremely configurable (and remain stable at that over years).
Or, on second thought: I have all that. So what problem does this solve?
The OS is totally mysterious. What exactly is it? Just Fedora with a custom rice of some wm?
By the way "Entertainment, Advertising, Shopping, Attack Surface, Distraction" is something you do not have in most distros anyway. So hardly a selling point.
Who is this for? Companies with too much money? Individuals with some aesthetic sensibilities for putting your hardware right below your keyboard?
- GPU is equivalent to a NVIDIA RTX 1650
- "Low profile" mechanical keyboard rather than a regular mechanical keyboard.
- Low modularity similar to a laptop.
- Holes right on the top where your spilled coffee goes
Plenty of people are frustrated with the current Windows ecosystem (Microsoft account login really bothers me for a lot of reasons). The market usually responds with one of two things: a Windows laptop you can convert into a Linux machine, or a Linux machine that tries very hard not to act like one. This is at least purporting to be neither (maybe they are full of shit, who knows). It’s trying to sell a finished, opinionated product for power users on Linux. Even if this particular device ends up turning into the next juicero/Rabbit R100, I’m glad to see someone treating that segment as worth designing for.
So yeah computer vendors, go ahead and do this more I like the vibes here even if I have no intention on buying right now.
You can buy computers with nothing installed on them if you want, and computer is computer (for the most part), so you can run whatever you want on it. I think the linux space is generally too fragmented into all the different distros to offer a "linux laptop", because people will wonder why it's not shipping with their favourite flavour of penguin
There's nothing wrong with that approach, but this is exactly the opposite of what I am saying.
To clarify, when you buy a computer with nothing on it, you are actually buying a windows computer that had windows removed or opted-out of. It was not built with Linux in mind.
Expensive, not ergonomic, probably totally useless.
_op-1 owner_
As a counterpoint, EP-133 (KO-II) is a very interestingly designed product that is ergonomic, quite useful, and gets a specific job done very, very well. The price also has fewer digits, so perhaps it doesn't trigger people as much as other products do.
I used to own an OP-1 and I thought it was great.
Nailed it.
Rather than being the usual bunch of grumpy armchair critics (raah raah, too expensive, raah raah, suboptimal GPU), we should be happy that there are still people who are willing to ignore the Statlers & Waldorfs of HN and try to compete with the current status quo.
The legends have insufficient contrast and quite a number of them are too small to read. The legends for ², ³, home, end, page up, page down, return, control, num lock and the four arrows are wrong, or in the case of escape, do not fit the theme. Minus and underscore are indistinguishable from each other. The small letter g has the wrong font weight. The level 3 and 4 legends are incongruent with /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/eu. Despite level 3 and 4 legends, there is no level 3 shift key. The return key is misshapen and the escape key has a grotesquely large size. The place of the insert key is usurped by the fn key.
I would behoove the designer to pay attention to ISO 9995 and verify the result with users before sending it off to manufacturing, the company could have avoided a lot of trouble.
I do find it funny they were able to trademark that kind of statement.
Not really sure I am the target audience for this, actually I'm not really sure who is to be honest.
> 9.2. Trademarks: “c100”, “Caligra” and all associated logos and trade dress are registered or unregistered trademarks of Caligra Ltd. You may not use any of Caligra Ltd’s trademarks without express written permission.
"Computer for Experts" may be trademarked, but it's unlikely
But to mirror the sentiment here on HN, the rest of it looks vaporware-y
Because it's not for the developers I know – they either want a Macbook or an infinitely configurable (hardware and software) workstation, whereas this has the configurability of a Macbook with the ease of use of the workstation, clearly not a combination people want.
I can only assume this is for mechanical keyboard collectors. Developer-adjacent tech enthusiasts who like the idea of Linux, without an actual professional need for it. People who like well built devices, but don't really care about swapping out hardware. People who have a lot of disposable income and want to buy cool things.
If that's the target market, that's fine. I guess the problem is that market only buys it if you claim its for a different market, developers/etc. As a result it's going to rile up developers every time as they always feel the need to push back with "this isn't what I want".
Probably people who see this and experience extreme confused nostalgia for the unholy merge of IBM and Commodore esthetic. It makes no practical sense, it's overpriced, it's a terrible use of space and I still crave it.
Would this benefit left handed users? I know people call for reversing mouse buttons and mouse hands but I've never seen an ask for flipping the position of the numpad.
I also don’t think I’ve ever seen a lefty who prefers (or at least regularly uses) a left mouse. I adjusted to right for the same reason as you, but I also think being able to type one handed with my left while mousing with my right is superior to its opposite for me.
I know lots of developers (me included) who want something solid and stable and Linux, i.e. definitely not a macbook
I don't think I've ever spent "real money" on a PC for my own use, and I doubt I ever will.
I suspect my experience mirrors that of about 50% of the folk on HN.
This company is apparently based in London, but I wonder how many UK residents were involved in the design of the keyboard at least.
(I don't want to sound too mean though. It's no sin to attempt to experiment with a potential new market segment.)
Courteous of them to put the numpad on the left where it BELONGS (apologies to late-80s Northgate Systems). And it's funny because I was just watching a vid about the Asus Eee Keyboard PC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asus_Eee#Eee_Keyboard) that this looks like a modern version of.
Much better specs than that old thing though, but given that it has a "vibe-designed" look about it, I think I'll pass on preordering.
Secondly, I find it odd to see the numpad on the left side of the keyboard, rather than on the right. Maybe the ergonomics are fine, but it caught my eye as unexpected.
theres a couple completely unimpressive videos (like 15s long) from employees on linkedin where they show off… tiling window management.
A Macbook Pro M5 running Asahi Linux would still be more cheaper than this trash scam.
No thanks and no deal.
Alrighty then.
For me this is a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. I like the look, but it wouldn't even really suit my desk, I like to have my keyboard push quite far forward, and the back of this C100 would prevent that.
Really nice, might even buy one, but there is no way this succeeds long term.
If you want PCs targeting Linux with good support... don't complain when someone tries doing exactly that.
You can think of it as a weirdness budget: this is an odd-purposed device, running a specialty distribution of Linux by design. It is not portable despite having portable-like specs. And on top of this, it has an unusual keyboard layout.
It costs a lot of money and requires pre-orders, so you can't even impulse buy it. You can't actually see if you'd like the keyboard switch or layout in stores, either.
From this site, we have no indication that any actual person is putting any kind of good-faith effort towards trying any actual thing.
All we know is that a bunch of marketers are trying to find out: Given a certain amount of marketing effort, how many people can we sign up to a mailing list, and how many people can we get to pay a $99 reservation fee, if the product proposition is: You'll get a slick-looking "Developer-Terminal" (specifics to be determined) for $1.999. -- Based on that, they will decide whether they will lift a finger to figure out what the product should actually be, let alone put any resources towards developing it.
That's where the negativity comes from. They are eroding people's good will. Good will that is sorely needed when actual companies make actual products and need actual consumers to pay attention to actual product launches.
The whole thing is terrible + a dedicated OS for "certain" work?
Price tag $2k? I would rather buy the Apple pouch.