Comment by zer00eyz | Hacker News Reader

Comment by zer00eyz | Hacker News Reader

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> Chip fabs used to be like book publishers;

I can still make a book like that in my basement. People do this as a hobby now. You can still build chips like that in your garage. People do this as a hobby now.

These things DO NOT SCALE... you cant have 10,000 people running printing presses in their basement to crank out the NYT every day. A modern chip fab has more in common with the printer for the NYT than it does with what you can crank out in your garage.

Let's look at TSMC's plant in AZ. They went and asked intel "hey where are you sourcing your sulfuric acid from. When they looked at the American vendors TSMC asked intel "how are you working with this". Intels response was that it was the best they could get.

It was not.

TSMC now imports sulfuric acid from Taiwan, because it needs to be outrageously pure. Intel is doing the same.

Every single part, component, step and setup in the chain is like that. There is so much arcane knowledge that loss of workers represents a serious set back. There are people in the production chain, with PHD's, who are literally training their successors because thats sort of the only option.

Do you know who has been trying the approach you are proposing? China. It has not worked.

https://www.youtube.com/asianometry probably the best rough and ready education you can get on the industry.

Complexity of the fab processes is isn't what the parent was talking about. They're talking about the major changes in the relationship between fabless semiconductor companies and commercial foundries.

The complexity of actual fabrication was always, and still is, entirely within the foundry. But in the early days of that model, designs could be more easily handed off at the logical level, leaving the physical design to back end companies, which makes designs much more portable between foundries. (The publisher analogy.) What's changed is that the complexity of physical design has exploded, and you can't make the handoff at nearly as high a level, and there is much more work that depends directly on the specific process you are targeting. Much more work at the physical level falls to the fabless semi companies. So it is much more work to retarget a design to a different foundry or process.

> Do you know who has been trying the approach you are proposing? China. It has not worked.

> https://www.youtube.com/asianometry probably the best rough and ready education you can get on the industry.

I would take anything from that channel regarding China with a pinch of salt.

> I can still make a book like that in my basement. People do this as a hobby now. You can still build chips like that in your garage. People do this as a hobby now.

You can absolutely manufacture a convincingly-professional, current-generation book in your basement with a practically-small capital investment.

You cannot manufacture a convincingly-professional chip (being generous: feature size and process technology from the last two decades) in your basement without a 6-7 figure capital expenditure, and even then - good luck.

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