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Comment by nonethewiser | Hacker News Reader

>We had a local story where the gist was the police said they searched ALPR for the welfare of a young woman, but it was actually more focused on a possible abortion.

Just to be clear, most abortions in Texas are illegal. That's not necessarily a good thing. Nor are flock cameras necessarily a good thing. But given abortions are illegal in Texas, it's simply being used for its nominal purpose.

So it doesnt seems like a particularly egregious use of flock. It's just as egregious as it normally is, which is pretty egregious.

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> Just to be clear, most abortions in Texas are illegal. That's not necessarily a good thing. Nor are flock cameras necessarily a good thing. But given abortions are illegal in Texas, it's simply being used for its nominal purpose.

(IANAL.) In the specific case cited by the parent poster, AFAICT looking at the facts of the case, no Texas law was violated, nor do the authorities involved ever allege that any law was violated.

Nonetheless, the authorities involved in this case violated her privacy, including use of ALPR cameras in other states. The reasoning given is disputed, and seems to be a motte/bailey between "it was a missing person report" (with specious reasoning as to her being "missing") and "investigation of an abortion" that the State themselves admits they "could not statutorily charge [her]" for.

> But given abortions are illegal in Texas, it's simply being used for its nominal purpose.

No, it's not.

The person in question was in Washington state at the time. Abortions are not blanket illegal in Washington. You cannot be prosecuted in Texas for breaking a Texas law for something you did in Washington (though some states are already in the process of trying to close that loophole, and have created the crime of "conspiracy to commit abortion").

It's also quite likely that accessing these Washington Flock records violated Washington law.

The law can be utterly egregious and an affront to morality. Legal behavior can thus be an utterly egregious affront to human decency. See: Apartheid

There is no handwaving away the moral implications of these technologies, and who they empower to do what to whom.

Im saying its a normal, predictable use of flock. Not that it's OK. Many readers might not know that abortions for the most part aren't legal in Texas. You should expect flock to assist law enforcement in catching people doing something illegal.

These specific abortion laws and systems of surveillance are new and unprecedented, as is the use of them together. So we should very much like to be aware of when they are being used.

Knowing abortions are illegal and flock cameras exist is sufficient information to know they are being used for such a purpose.

The amount of people you know who understand Flock can be counted with your right hand, and most likely can be counted without. This is not common knowledge.

See sibling comment. It's not at all shown that the person did something illegal, in fact they did something quite legal, have an abortion in Washington state in a manner that was within the parameters of Washington's abortion laws.

They don't catch people doing something illegal. They might record someone's car being near some place where maybe something illegal happened. That's not the standard of "reasonable doubt" required for a criminal conviction, and at best is (weak) circumstantial evidence.

There is no distinction between circumstantial and direct evidence in US criminal law.

Just to be clear you believe it is normal and predictable for law enforcement officers in one state to follow your movements in another state to see if you violated state law in a state where it does not apply? That kind of normal?

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