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david38

GDP is a meaningless measure for all but governments and the very elite.

How about some metrics on issue that led to Brexit?

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>> GDP is a meaningless measure for all but governments and the very elite.

Source?

The top three GDP per capita are: Lichtenstein, Luxembourg, Bermuda. The bottom three are: Afghanistan, Yemen, South Sedan. As an average person I would rather live in the top countries of the list than the bottom but that's just anecdote.

Taking maximas and minimas is only saying that the scale of GDP figures is interesting to look at. Like does it have 3 figured or 6 figures ? But that metric is easily done with others measures than GDP.

And yeah, if you study GDP its easy to see it’s a giant scam and the economy cannot be put into numbers. Qualities are better than quantities

> if you study GDP its easy to see it’s a giant scam and the economy cannot be put into numbers. Qualities are better than quantities

You'll need to have some sources for that!

I don’t. It’s people who pretend the economy can be measured that should prove their point (they can’t)

GDP has been studied and demonstrated for decades. I wonder if there are any economic metrics that are better studied.

Its an argument from authority. All those people could be wrong about what the economy is about, it does happen that 90% of people are wrong about something, collectively. And every country measures it differently.

Even if it was really meaningful, by the simple Cobra effect it would be made meaningless

It's an argument based on research and expert consensus. What is your argument based on?

Do you have a historical example when a decrease in GDP in a country was accompanied with generally accepted increase in quality of life?

Why would you need that ? GDP does not have good theoretical foundations. We don’t need to pretend it’s a natural science like biology, it’s constructed from bad statistics, it’s worth nothing

Well this just tells you that if you play by someone else's rules you get money and investment pouring in and GDP going up. If you don't then its the opposite. The main question is do you prefer to play by your own rules or rules imposed by investment interests.

Edit: For an average person its not always true that an illusion of prosperity is always good. Eventually there might be a payback for all this capital.

Your point is a serious one, and well taken. But “South Sedan” made me smile. Seemed like a reference to rusting sedans on cinder blocks in the low-gdp rural south.

I steal all your shit, you get reimbursement from insurance, gdp goes up.

this is such a bad way to evaluate a metric. we want something that can distinguish small percentage changes in affordability for the people who live there

The average citizen in those places do not reap the rewards. Those places are countries where laws are built for the rich and to shield money. GDP is not a great measure for the average person unless communism is fully realized.

The average citizen is much better off than in low-GDP places. The issue is how much prosperity they miss out on because it's captured by a few.

The world has never seen an explosion in prosperity, and reduction in poverty, like the post-WWII and post-Cold War years, and it was accomplished via free markets, trade, etc. (not perfectly or exclusively, of course). Look at S Korea, Taiwan, Japan, Brazil, China, India - like nothing the world has ever seen. Billions lifted from poverty.

Look at Western Europe after the absolute destruction of two world wars, and compare their recovery with places that did not follow the path of free markets and trade.

I don't know why people are being to negative towards GP. (Maybe because he didn't argue his point?) It's well known that GDP is not a good measurement for common people.

You can have a rich elite and a high GDP, but that doesn't mean the common people are doing as well as the GDP suggests.

A good example of this is Ireland. It has a huge GDP. 129,132$ per capita. It's the 3rd richest country in the world if you look at it like that (Liechtenstein and Luxembourg are first and second).

But do you think the average Irishman actually makes 129,132$ per year? No. Ireland is a tax heaven and its artificially inflated by tax shenanigans from foreign multinationals.

There are other reasons why absolute GPD is bullshit. Even PPP GDP is a little bullshit.

> It's well known that GDP is not a good measurement for common people.

It has many flaws, but can you name a better one?

> that doesn't mean the common people are doing as well as the GDP suggests.

Nobody who understands GDP would say everyone is doing as well (or poorly) as GDP suggests. Some people do better, some worse.

But people in places with higher GDP reliably do better. Visit a poor or middle-income country; the difference is unmistakeable and this debate becomes absurd.

Inequality is a major problem in high-GDP countries; that doesn't mean GDP is meaningless.

HDI, electrical generation per capita, energy use per capita.

That's an overly simplistic take. Obviously the absolutely richest nations in the world are better places to live than the absolutely poorest. But that doesn't mean there is a strict ranking based on GDP.

For example, based on GDP/capita:

  - The United States outrank the Netherlands.
  - The United Arab Emirates outrank Italy.
  - Puerto Rico outranks South Korea.
  - Saudi Arabia outranks Japan.

I don't know about you but for all of these pairs I'd rather live in the latter rather than the former.

I remember someone on HN complaining that there were places selling authentic Polish sausages in London, and somehow it sounded they were deeply unhappy about it.

I don't know if average Londoners can still afford authentic Polish sausages, but if they can't, I hope the original commenter is happy now.

But what about the food though!

Poland's GDP per capita went from less than 20% that of the UK in 2005 to 38-48% currently depending on source.

Those sausages have only become less affordable.

It only makes sense to compare GDP between countries on PPP basis. Otherwise you don't account for currency rate fluctuations and difference in averge price level.

IMF figures for 2025:

87% GDP per capita PPP, 50% nominal GDP per capita

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)...

The English are deathly afraid of food with flavor.

If you have a look at figure 2 here: https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/lo...

You'll see that immigration was at record levels post Brexit.

Yes, but a third of Poles emigrated, largely ending Brits' moral panic about Polish plumbers stealing the jobs, social housing and increasing housing prices.

Not that it solved the issue of jobs, social housing or housing prices of course.

So a largely imaginary "problem" was replaced with an even larger "problem".

The metrics for that were pretty much: 2 World Wars and 1 World Cup.

Immigration massively up, mainly legal, but illegal immigration’s up too.

Right have been removed from tens of millions of Brits (some like Farage have kept their European citizenship but most have had it taken away)

I’m still waiting for a benefit.

Racism has increased, yes. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp3vg33nje4o

What issue is that? Propagandistic, lying media spreading misinformation to the public as corrupt politicians, being paid off by malign foreign actors intent on destroying the influence and power of Britain on the world stage?

Yes, let’s see some details on that.

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