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Comment by ssrc | Hacker News Reader

For me, the "human-readable" part is key. It's not just that the output is e.g. javascript, but that it is more or less human-readable with about the same organization as the original code.

If you implement SKI combinators, or three-address instructions, as functions in javascript, and that's the output of your compiler, I would not call that a transpiler.

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Exactly. For a web dev oriented example, I would call coffeescript a transpiler, since it would transform

    # some comment
    myFun = -> 
       alert 'Hello CoffeeScript!'

into

     // some comment
     var myFun;

     myFun = function() {
         return alert('Hello CoffeeScript!');
     };

clearly intending the output code to be quite readable (even preserving comments).

Whereas Elm is a compiler since it transforms

  module Main exposing (main)

  import Html

  main =
  Html.text "Hello Elm!"

into

  (function(scope){
  'use strict';

  function F(arity, fun, wrapper) {
  wrapper.a = arity;
  wrapper.f = fun;
  return wrapper;
  }

  // about 4000 lines ommitted

  var $author$project$Main$main = $elm$html$Html$text('Hello Elm!');
  _Platform_export({'Main':{'init':_VirtualDom_init($author$project$Main$main)(0)(0)}});}(this));

Clearly not intended for (easy) human consumption.

Would it still count as a transpiler if it minifies the code at the end?

For example, most SCSS workflows I've worked with converert SCSS source code into minified CSS, which is pretty difficult for a human to read. But I think that SCSS => CSS still counts as transpiling.

> Would it still count as a transpiler if it minifies the code at the end?

I would say "yes, but the minimization is an additional step that is not actually a direct part of the transpiling process." :-)

So, a program that does this would not a transpiler by itself, but a program that

- executes a pipeline of which the transpiling is the most important step,

- can also be used as a transpiler by making transpiling the only step in the executed pipeline.

What if the minification is inseparable from the transpiler? Like what if it converts the SCSS into some weird graph representation, applies the transpilation features (variables, mixins, etc) on that graph representation, then converts the graph representation into minified CSS? At no point in the process was it ever human-readable CSS. I don't know enough about the internals of transpilers to know if they actually do anything like this, but one could imagine a hypothetical program that does.

And furthermore, what if you run Prettier on the minified output, turning it into readable CSS? The pipeline as a whole would input SCSS and output formatted CSS and therefore would be considered a transpiler, but the subprogram that does all of the SCSS heavy lifting would input SCSS and output minified SCSS, making it not a transpiler.

P.S. I love your username

What you describe is in my opinion a corner case. The following is just my personal opinion on this topic; it is very easy to argue for a different viewpoint:

I personally think that the central point whether it is a transpiler or not is whether the generated output is in the "spirit" in which the output language was conceived to be written by a human programmer.

So, if the outputted CSS code is in a rather similar "spirit" to how a human programmer would write it (though having possibly lots of traces of being auto-generated), it is a transpiler.

For example, if a transpiler generates hundreds of rules for CSS classes, but humans would solve the problem very differently using CSS code, it is rather not a transpiler, but some program that uses CSS as an output format for the reason that this is the output format that has to be used for technical reasons.

This of course encompasses the case of minified CSS code: hardly any programmer would write minified CSS code in a text editor.

Similarly, I would argue that a "transpiler" that generates highly non-idiomatic C code (i.e. it is "insanely obvious" that the output is not C code in the sense how the C language is "intended" to be used) is not a transpiler, but rather a compiler that uses C as some kind of high-level assembler code for output.

In this sense I would indeed say that some "transpiler" that generates highly non-idiomatic JavaScript code is in my opinion rather a compiler that uses JavaScript as an output format because it is necessary because this is necessary to run the code in the browser. I am of course aware that many programmers do have a different opinion here.

So, I would say a strong rule of thumb to decide transpiler or not transpiler is: if there was a choice to use a different output language than the destination language - would the transpiler use the latter one instead? So, to answer your question

> And furthermore, what if you run Prettier on the minified output, turning it into readable CSS? The pipeline as a whole would input SCSS and output formatted CSS and therefore would be considered a transpiler, but the subprogram that does all of the SCSS heavy lifting would input SCSS and output minified SCSS, making it not a transpiler.

If the goal is clearly to generate idiomatic CSS code that can be well understood by a human programmer, by my stance it clearly is a transpiler. If you, on the hand, create such an example just to find a corner case for "transpiler or not transpiler", I would say it is not.

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