Hacker News Reader

Comment by princevegeta89 | Hacker News Reader

Windows is not really just a gaming OS, at least after WSL was launched. Development experience using Windows Terminal + WSL has been pretty great when I did it 3 years ago - I can only imagine it being better today.

Also note that the cost of Windows machines is half the price of their Mac counterparts, even with the specs doubled.

For many folks Windows is an all-round multipurpose platform (gaming included) and they wouldn't want to invest in other machines just for doing development work, so they stick to it as their main OS. Yes we know of the horrible bloat, tracking and privacy invasion that the OS does to us, but many people tend to just ignore it and move on.

View on HN

> Yes we know of the horrible bloat, tracking and privacy invasion that the OS does to us, but many people tend to just ignore it and move on.

Or in the case of enterprises, Windows gets controlled and managed by a (hopefully) competent IT team or enterprise desktop group, and with LTSC versions Microsofts give them the tools to strip the bloat, tracking, and most of the privacy invasions (to then be replaced with corporate privacy invasions in a lot of cases).

Point being, Windows as an enterprise user desktop is a whole different beast from Windows on the laptop mom and dad just bought from Best Buy.

HN lives in a macOS/Linux bubble, but outside of SV it's a Windows world still. So much of the world runs on Windows in places that you wouldn't even expect to see Windows. And with enterprise purchasing agreements, you can get some good deals on bulk laptop purchases that you aren't getting from Apple. $1,000 or less per 32GB of RAM laptop, depending on how many you are buying. I've seen bulk purchases as low as $700/laptop for enterprises that buy thousands at a time for scheduled refreshes. You're not going to be able to buy everyone a MacBook Pro for that pricing.

Windows remains one of the best general purpose OSes for generic office worker productivity, and I don't see that changing anytime soon unless Microsoft really fucks it up with whatever Copilot garbage they are doing.

> LTSC versions

Microsoft consultants very actively discourage the use of LTSC for... "reasons".

Translation: "It hurts our KPIs if our telemetry starts falling off and we can't push Minecraft and AI updates to as many desktops at will!"

The quite sensible reason is that LTSC doesn't contain the windows store, and as a result a bunch of driver apps don't work because they moved to using UWP apps (eg. realtek audio console). Not to mention that you'll eventually get weird compatibility issues because you'll eventually be running a windows version 5-10 years old, whereas most devs assume you're using be using the normal versions which are at most 2 years out of date. All of these issues can be worked around if you're sufficiently technically inclined, but people who are hiring "Microsoft consultants" probably aren't.

But you can install it?

>All of these issues can be worked around [...]

I recommend LTSC for terminal services environments like Azure Virtual Desktop, where driver issues just aren’t a problem.

Windows LTSC has semi annual updates, the same as Windows Server. Speaking of which, that’s essentially what it is: a cut-down version of the Server Desktop Experience with pretty much the same defaults and capabilities.

Microsoft could implement App Store support for LTSC (and Served), they simply choose not to. It’s telling that this isn’t a problem in practice.

>Windows LTSC has semi annual updates, the same as Windows Server

You mean biennial? It definitely doesn't get updates twice a year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_11_version_history

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/semiannual#English

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/biennial#English

The relevant link for LTSC version history is: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/iot/iot-enterprise...

    Windows 11 IoT Enterprise, version 25H2  2025‑09‑30
    Windows 11 IoT Enterprise, version 24H2  2024‑10‑01
    Windows 11 IoT Enterprise, version 23H2  2023‑10‑31
    Windows 11 IoT Enterprise, version 22H2  2022‑09‑20
    Windows 11 IoT Enterprise, version 21H2  2021‑10‑04

Looks like annual versions...

"IoT Enterprise" =/= "LTSC"

Microsoft "consultants" are are usually just license auditors in disguise. We ignore them, and I suggest everyone else do the same. They "helpfully" reach out and offer to optimize your infrastructure and spend. That 'optimization' is actually "let's make sure you bought all the CALs you were supposed to, and when you inevitably didn't, because we make our licensing confusing, we'll charge you extra and threaten legal action for non-compliance"

Better to find a reputable VAR and get your licensing through them and don't ever deal with Microsoft directly.

My work laptop is Windows and IT have removed the bloatware but the desktop is still a shitshow. Clicking on a window in the taskbar doesn't even reliably bring it to the front.

I've noticed it seems windows aren't allowed to foreground themselves/each other anymore, which seems reasonable (anti click jacking?), but this includes VS not being able to foreground my diff tool when I diff something, and Outlook not being able to foreground itself when I double click the new mail envelope in the notification area.

I also enjoy going to grab a maximised window by its title bar and somehow grabbing the window behind it.

Yeah, windows is pretty aggressive with the focus stealing prevention (I believe GNOME on Linux is also working on something similar, hopefully with a better implementation).

It seems to struggle with differentiating between what's a user initiated focus-steal and what's automated/originating from the app without user action.

I'll take that over what existed before, which was any app could just open a window and give itself focus at any time.

Yeah My company requires Windows. windows Terminal + WSL at least makes development bearable.

Why not run Windows in a VM?

Or run a VM in Windows? Hyper-V is pretty decent for many use cases.

You’re right but you’re responding to a troll.

We use WSL for development where I work.

Sadly, the one problem with WSL(g) is graphical rendering. It can't handle DPI scaling properly at all (yes, even with experimental settings) and the result is blurriness, gigantic mouse cursor, clicks not registered where the cursor appears to be, or itty-bitty icons and UI that you can barely see.

I can't stand that they haven't fixed it in all this time.

It has gotten better. The `vmmem` hyper-v process would regularly freeze up and require a reboot on my Windows 10 work laptop. I’ve successfully run WSL for days/weeks without issue on Windows 11. As a tradeoff, I’ve had the Weston container freeze up and be unrecoverable without restarting WSL.

>Also note that the cost of Windows machines is half the price of their Mac counterparts, even with the specs doubled.

Bullshit, MacBooks are one of the cheaper options for usable devices today. Esp in there entry segment.

Yeah. An M4 macbook air is about a grand.

Now spec it with 32GB of RAM, and try to get a bulk discount for ordering 1,000 of them. Try to get the price of said 32GB M4 Airs down to ~$700/laptop or less.

Not going to happen with Apple.

No company that's big enough is paying sticker price for windows laptops.

``` Now spec it with 32GB of RAM, and try to get a bulk discount for ordering 1,000 of them. Try to get the price of said 32GB M4 Airs down to ~$700/laptop or less. Not going to happen with Apple. ```

Exactly. Thanks for explaining this. Also one more point to note is Windows machines go on discount sales very frequently. It's usually way too easy to find one with 32GB and 1TB, with the latest Ryzen or Intel mobile processors. Bonus when you find one like Lenovo Legion which allows you to buy and shove-in extra RAM/storage as you need them.

Is ram and SSD and CPU all you care about?

I mean yeah, you will get a PC a bit cheaper..

But then you just ignored everything else, build quality, webcam, speakers, sound, SSD speed, keyboard, battery runtime, screen quality..

With business line for comparable build quality/durability you are not getting half price anymore, and I have not yet seen any laptop speaker/webcam not on a MacBook with comparable quality.

I do not have access to bulk discounts, but you are more then invited to post some samples.

The vast majority of people care more about RAM, SSD and CPU only. Apple charges $200+ for an increment in each of these departments.

Moreover, the speakers, keyboard, battery, webcam are almost caught up in quality with Macbooks when you look at products like LG Gram.

Reg. Screen Quality, some windows machines have better screens actually, and those are the OLED ones.

>vast majority of people care more about RAM, SSD and CPU

The vast majority of people do not know what any of this is, and they do not care at all, they want a fast machine for there usecase.. and for most people that is the equivalent to editing a word doc and listening to Spotify.

After watching a review if the LG gram, yeah, I am not convinced that comes anywhere close in regards of speakers or keyboard.. and the durability seems.. questionable

It also seem to be around the same price point of a MacBook air with more or less the same specs on super duper black Friday sale

>> fast machine for there usecase

Isn't that what RAM, CPU and SSD are all about? The average user doesn't care much, but at the end of the day if your machine cannot keep up several open apps due to low RAM or cannot store a lot of data because you only have 256GB, that's a problem right?

Sure, but that border is for a lot more then 90% of users mostly reached with 16gb and an m1/and equivalent...

From a certain point a faster SSD was more important for program startup and the m1 did blow a normal windows laptop out of the water there

And nowadays is mostly how well does the os it's thing, a word doc will not compute faster because you have more cores

For me personally? Yeah, I care about build quality, webcam, speakers, etc. Which is mostly why I still use a macbook.

But for bulk purchases the business is buying for the average office worker, no, none of those things matter. The only thing that matters is RAM, CPU, and does it have a 3/5 year warranty (whatever the lifecycle of the device is). Otherwise, it's spending 8 hours a day hooked up to a docking station, lid closed, and users use headsets for meetings.

That's largely why it's so hard to find/buy a non-mac laptop with equivalent price to performance & build quality. They largely aren't made for individuals who are choosing their own hardware.

So the initial quote:

>even with the specs doubled.

Was bullshit? Because webcam, sound durability are also specs..

Reply on news.ycombinator.com