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Maybe there's room in the world for a device people want, even if it's not the device the majority want? I mean I know Apple is just a small startup company with only a $4 trillion valuation, but maybe they could just do one thing that isn't maximally profitable once in a while.

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If each iPhone model served only 3% of total iPhone users like the iPhone mini did, you'd end up with 33 iPhone models

Good.

Good, in some ways. But do people want to pay higher prices for these iPhones to cover the costs that have to be amortized over a lower volume of devices?

I highly doubt it.

If Apple didn't run such a closed ecosystem, other hardware vendors would step in and be happy to sell a form factor that 3% of the market uses.

I keep trying to use Andriod to get more choice on form factor, but one thing always brings me back to an iPhone: texting incompatibility. Apple has me locked into their ecosystem because I can't get a decent quality video texted to me.

As an Apple fan since the 90s who remembers how Microsoft abused its market dominance for decades, it's particularly ironic that Apple continues to use this technique against other companies.

Apple developed iMessage to work around the problems with SMS and MMS, as well as decrease load on carrier networks. There is no closed ecosystem, you can still receive messages and videos from iPhone users, just at the quality your hardware and software can support.

Google later decided to come up with a completely different implementation called RCS to deal with the same problems. Rather than work with Apple on bringing an iMessage app to Android or licensing it, they instead tried to pressure Apple with a public advertising campaign to adopt what is frankly an inferior solution that doesn't even have reliable end-to-end encryption.

Your complaint is basically that you bought a Toyota and it does not have BMW's laser headlights that adjust brightness and angle automatically. You still have headlights, you just didn't spend the money to get the good ones.

Apple's strategy to use iMessage for lock in is public record.[1]

[1] https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/9/22375128/apple-imessage-an...

Yes because Google offered nothing of value in return. Like in my example, nothing stops Toyota from offering enough money to license BMW's laser headlights.

It's a poor example because laser headlights don't have network effects.

Does Apple allow non-Apple devices to send and receive messages from the iMessage network? Under any conditions?

> Rather than work with Apple on bringing an iMessage app to Android or licensing it

This seems like an unfair take - Apple is on record using iMessage specifically to deteriorate the experience between Android and iOS users. I don't see them working with Google to bring iMessage to Android.

Google tried the same thing Apple did long before RCS when it made Hangouts the default SMS app for Android. Conversations could be upgraded from SMS to Google's internet-based chat protocol if the other person had an account; it was even available for iPhones, but it couldn't be an SMS client.

Carriers didn't like it and Google caved.

Lets be honest, Hangouts (which of the three versions) was a crappy chat app that they wanted to boost the usage of. It wasn't intended to be a functional SMS replacement.

As a former regular user, I don't remember it being notably worse than any of the other options. It was definitely preferable to SMS.

Maybe there was some glaring flaw I'm not remembering, but Google certainly had the resources to make it more competitive if they'd wanted to.

> just at the quality your hardware and software can support.

I assure you, Android phones have been able to render video of far higher quality than what Apple devices would send to them through MMS.

iMessage is a cloud ecosystem. I cannot install iMessage on my Android device.

> Rather than work with Apple on bringing an iMessage app to Android

Apple has been free to release this app at any time. There is nothing Google is doing that prevents it from being made. The only people preventing this app from existing are the people at Apple.

> If Apple didn't run such a closed ecosystem, other hardware vendors would step in and be happy to sell a form factor that 3% of the market uses.

There aren't any decent small (less than 6") Android phones either.

There is a wide variety of form factors available in the android ecosystem. Whether or not they fit your definition of "decent" just depends on how much you prioritize size:

https://www.samsung.com/us/smartphones/galaxy-z-flip7/

https://www.unihertz.com/products/jelly-max

I don't really count foldables but I hadn't seen the Jelly Max. I stand corrected, looks like a great phone.

Foldables get this job done well. My (OG) Pixel Fold is a great size & aspect ratio while folded, easy to use one-handed, but has a giant screen when you open it up. The newer Pixel Folds and the other foldables on the market have all grown the screen vertically but they're still more compact than most flagships.

I wouldn't. I personally think iOS kind of sucks, and I only keep using it because Android developers don't support devices long enough for me. Third party developers would be as much a mess as they are in the Android world and at that point I'd rather have a phone with a good OS.

> I can't get a decent quality video texted to me.

It seems this gap has significantly closed, assuming both sides have RCS support. I've got a number of decent quality videos sent through RCS from friends through RCS.

3% was the iPhone 13 mini? It sold the least of the 4 relatively small phones Apple introduced in under 18 months.

How many Android phone models exist?

On the Samsung US store alone, currently 12 models (not counting renewed phones)

Not to mention the SE (variant of the 4 I think?) was way more popular. Dismissing the whole concept just because one implementation at one time was a relative flop (and as you point out, that's still a lot of sales).

Also, they're happy to have Pro and non-Pro SKUs etc., just averse to smaller for reason.

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy to launch the iPhone mini during Covid, offer it 2 years, and say no one wants them.

The haters dismiss the SE point by saying it was the price, not size. But it does prove that no one avoids phones due to being "too small".

The size increase is because of cost optimization. Where it's wrong is that everything else meant for humans comes in small, medium, and large. Phones? Just large and XL.

I don't get this logic. Putting aside that to get 33 different models you would come up with 5-6 different form factors, each of them on a distinct point in the tradeoff scale, why do you think that something is only worth doing if it can be put on an uniform supply-demand curve?

What percent of the iPhone sales do you think it took to pay off the significant engineering and factory/tooling setup costs? I bet it's more than 3%.

How much of those costs are already sunk regardless of the split in your product line?

Apple made nearly $190 billion last year selling just iPhones.

If you think it costs more than $5 billion to design a phone and set up a production line, you are wildly off base. That’s the kind of money companies spend to build silicon fabs or release half a dozen new car models, not consumer products made by a contract manufacturer.

Revenue is not profit!!! A good chunk of that is the cost of parts!

Apple's R&D expenses were $34B for 2025.

...you do know that Apple produces its own silicon, and probably uses about an entire TSMC fab's worth of capacity? In the end, the money to build that fab is coming from Apple.

Apple isn't making average consumer products with average contract manufacturers.

I bet the iphone mini still outsold several macbook skus

>maybe they could just do one thing that isn't maximally profitable once in a while.

They tried that this year and called it iPhone Air

Right, forgot to mention it should also be somewhat practical.

I get you're referring to the profitability, but the iPhone Air is just thin, not small, which is where this conversation started.

I bought a Pro Max for myself and an Air for my wife, who had a Mini before.

The Air is DAMN SMALL. You really should try holding it. Yes the 2D dimensions are as large as a normal modern phone but it’s hardly there otherwise. It’s a good compromise.

I’d want it myself but I shoot ProRes Video.

Based on sales of the air, it won’t be around in future years.

The issue is the 2D footprint compared to older models like the iPhone SE and iPhone 13 Mini. The iPhone Air is still significantly larger.

It's entirely about the 2D space in terms of being able to easily hold it in one hand and reach the whole screen, as well as other things like how it fits into pockets. I have large hands and an iPhone 13 mini, and it still feels too big for me to use comfortably with one hand.

> Yes the 2D dimensions are as large as a normal modern phone but it’s hardly there otherwise.

The 2D dimensions are literally the only thing I care about. I'm going to barely notice the weight difference. The actual thickness is a lie with the giant camera hump.

What I do care about is whether I can operate it single-handedly: I want my thumb to reach the top of the screen (so I can drag down the notification bar and click nav stuff) while the bottom of the phone is resting on my pinky. I could easily do that on my Galaxy S III Mini, it was comfortable with my Moto G 2, it was just about doable with my Nokia 6.1 - and it is impossible with my Pixel 7. At no point did I I actively look for a larger phone: going for a larger model has always been an unavoidable compromise.

Ya got me there.

It felt more like: keep the size, reduce the battery life

You missed the part where he said "make a device people want."

I'm curious how well it is selling. Early on there was a lot of enthusiasm, but I haven't heard much since. I don't know if I'd want a phone with less battery life, but my understanding is the Air's battery is actually not much smaller than last year's pro?

It doesn’t seem to be selling well: https://www.macrumors.com/2025/11/10/next-generation-iphone-...

Neither is Samsung's similar Galaxy Edge apparently, to the extent that the product line may have already been cancelled after just one generation. Both companies probably should have sat on that idea until they could offset the physically smaller batteries with the much denser silicon-carbon technology.

The battery is actually fine, better than the iPhone 16’s. The single camera and the pricing are the main problem, along with assorted minority showstoppers like single speaker and large size. It’s also not that much lighter, actually heavier than previous iPhones like the 12. People who are fine with a single camera and want less weight can also get the 16e for a much lower price, and then at least get stereo speakers. Add to that the very strong offering of the iPhone 17 this year.

> Foxconn has reportedly dismantled all but one and a half of its production lines for the iPhone Air , and all production is expected to be stopped at the end of the month

Ouch! That sounds pretty bad, indeed.

I was originally a little interested in the Air because I wanted to downsize from my previous 15 Pro Max. I ultimately decided that the Air was only thinner, and still big in the dimensions I wanted it to be smaller in.

The iPhone Air was a turn in the wrong direction.

What people like me wanted was an iPhone 13 mini that's a bit thicker so it can have a bit more battery capacity. And with the 120 Hz PWM nausea fixed.

The iPhone Air has worse battery life. And it has a larger screen. And it's worse to handle one-handed. Coming from the 13 mini, it's not an improvement.

I bought an Air, coming from a 13 mini, and I largely agree with you on all those points except the battery life. I'm not sure why everyone keeps saying the Air has bad battery life, which maybe it does compared to the 17 or 17 Pro etc, but the past week I've been test driving it it has more than all day battery life for me. My 13 mini needed a recharge in the middle of the day (battery was worn down to about 83%).

Otherwise, yeah, you're right. I'm pretty sure I'm going to return it this week before my 14 days are up.

Totally agreed.

The one thing I don’t see criticized enough is the lack of a SIM card slot in international models. I understand they physically couldn’t fit it in, but I bet it's a deal breaker for everybody who has no experience with CDMA phones, so basically everybody outside of North America.

> it's a deal breaker for everybody who has no experience with CDMA phones, so basically everybody outside of North America.

Huh? CDMA is long dead, and the technical capabilities of physical and e-SIMs are identical. SIM = Subscriber Identity Module, all it does is encode your identity.

As far as I know, CDMA, compared to GSM, didn't have a SIM card equivalent. The identity information was baked into the handset and if you wanted to move your number from one phone into another, you had to get in touch with your carrier.

eSIM reintroduces this problem. Those who experienced it 20-odd years ago with CDMA may feel like home. But elsewhere, where it's always been a norm to have the easily transferable physical SIM card, it might be viewed as too much of a hassle.

Eh, I think it depends on the carrier.

My wife didn't have international data with the carrier she had previously. When we traveled out of the country at first she was thinking she wouldn't care and would just get by with wifi. After a couple of days she changed her mind and wanted to have some kind of service. It was extremely simple to find a provider through the hotel WiFi, prepay for a week of service, download the SIM to the phone, and boom she was back to having service. Manged to get it all done at breakfast.

So long as the carrier is simple to get an eSIM it doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Its trivial to transfer an eSIM on Android assuming both devices are still functional. Its pretty easy to load an eSIM, compared to having to somehow call the phone company and have them manually enter the IMEI or whatever from back in the day. The only somewhat pain point is when your old device is smashed and you don't have any internet. In that case, having a physical SIM is better, I agree.

I think it's possible this is a good summary explanation, but isn't this a bit like saying "We only make shirts in medium because it's what the majority wants."

I would switch from Android to Apple if this fixed this problem.

Come to think of it, the only reason I switched from Android to Apple was because the 12 Mini wasn't massive and was actually a decent phone. If I have to get a massive phone again, I might as well go back to Android.

Same story for me, but with the 15 Pro. The Pixel 7 phones were huge so I just switched to my first iPhone.

They are making 5 different iPhone models of varying sizes, features, prices.

All big. 5 the same size category, barely different.

Then they push a tiny-tiny device, the watch. Inbetween? Empty desert.

They do not do things smartly but by force. Like the omission of physical home button, notch, no jack, clud first, and a lot of other things forced on us. Some decide to live with, or even adapt the love of it, despite never ever asked for it. Using the force like Darth Vader.

They used to make the "mini" but that's because Jobs had taste and it's what he, specifically, wanted in his pocket. Now Jobs is gone and... no more mini.

But I'll keep my iPhone 13 mini going as long as I can.

I own an iPhone 16 pro, but I’m constantly thinking about switching to an iPhone 13 mini with an aftermarket battery conversion to make it last all day. The only thing that holds me back is that I can’t easily convert it to USBC.

My battery is on its last legs, and I was going to pick up an iFixit one at some point and do the swap, but I believe theirs is the OEM configuration/capacity. Is there another option for an actual higher capacity battery?

https://irepart.com/products/iphone-13-mini-battery-replacem...

Original was 2406 mAh

Yes okay, I confirm that the part iFixit is offering is just the standard capacity (9.34Wh / 2.4Ah):

https://www.ifixit.com/en-ca/products/iphone-13-mini-battery

It doesn't seem like Repart do direct to consumer sales; I'll look around and see if I can find somewhere reputable to buy that in Canada.

Based on this reddit thread, it doesn't seem that there's really a consensus around whether these purported supersized after market batteries are the real deal:

https://www.reddit.com/r/iPhone13Mini/comments/1gap4yc/share...

They made it, it didn't sell well. Last I checked zero Android manufacturers were still creating high quality small phones (<5.5"). The Android community has resorted to petitions like https://smallandroidphone.com

Some people definitely want it, but when not even one Android manufacturer will create a model when they can get 100% market share, it looks like there isn't enough demand.

Foldable phones sold well enough Samsung introduced their 7th generation this year.

You've hit the nail on the head. There are still some manufacturers that make small phones, and some that make high quality phones, but zero that make high quality small phones. Apple used to be our last respite, now we have nothing.

Not in Tim Cook land. If a product is profitable that’s not good enough, it has to be very profitable.

A CEO that maximises for shareholder value? Shocking.

But is he?

We don’t know. If having such a phone keeps someone in the Apple ecosystem that may be more valuable. All their services they’re always pitching. People with iPhones are more likely to buy iPads and Macs.

Maybe the get tired of the tiny screen or want a better camera and move up in a few years.

The value of a customer over a longer time horizon, perhaps 10 years, may be better if you let them buy the phone you make $250 on instead of $450.

He’s maximizing value for the quarter. That so often steers companies wrong.

Shareholders would never ever be ok with a company not trying to be maximally profitable.

That's why Tesla stock tanked as soon as the FT wrote that "$1.4bn appears to have gone astray." ;)

https://www.ft.com/content/62df8d8d-31f2-445e-bfa2-c171ac43d...

What's Tesla's forward PE? Close to 200? I don't think we can use them as an example of anything resembling a sane market.

Edit: Found a link to the article content, I gather that's basically the point you're making?

> What's Tesla's forward PE? Close to 200?

Nope, close to 300 actually…

That's trailing PE. A standard response to that observation would be that the market is forward looking. So I try to stick to forward PE when discussing price. 200 is still insane in any case, it's an order of magnitude higher than, for example, GOOG.

Yes, the point I was trying to make is that companies can get away with not being maximally profitable. There's nothing legally stopping Apple from accepting a slightly lower profit margin on the 5% of sales volume that might go to smaller iPhones if they would offer them. But it might brighten the day for millions of customers.

Tim Cook told people they should sell their shares if they wanted Apple to abandon environmental sustainability policies. And he identified accessibility as a similar issue.[1]

[1] https://www.macobserver.com/news/tim-cook-rejects-ncppr-poli...

I'm all for that when it comes to things like accessibility technology that allows people to do things they otherwise couldn't. But screen sizes? You can use a larger screen, you just prefer a smaller one.

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