Europe converged rapidly on the United States before stagnating
constitutionofinnovation.eu
constitutionofinnovation.eu
On top of that not all regulation is about economics, sometimes we favor safety, standard of living or social safety nets above short term profit. Those factors will in the long run lead to more prosperity for the citizens.
No system is ideal and there are definitely problems within Europe however I feel like this article is written from a very pro USA perspective. At points it almost reads like a thread to the European government or pro-USA propaganda. I think the authors proposes a solution that will lead to a "race to the bottom" within European trade similar to how the current economic system is dysfunctional in the USA.
If you buy olive oil in Europe you get olive oil.
If you buy olive oil from Europe you may get olive oil, you might get something else. This is because European olive oil trade has large component of European (largely Italian) gangsters involved in the olive oil export trade.
As a consumer myself would prefer regulation on what is sold, laws only work within your borders so the USA can't regulate EU production but can regulate import from Europe and vice versa.
> (largely Italian) gangsters
Seems to imply criminal/illegal activity, that is everywhere and not really important to the statement. If it's just that you are not expecting to be sold a fake while it is legal, maybe the law needs updating.
Therefore you don't have a largescale problem of importing fake olive oil, not because your laws are superior, but because your domestic natural resources and skillsets don't economically demand such risky import.
Did you read the whole article? The current European standard of living is built on debt and unsustainable without an increased rate of growth (to outgrow the debt). And it potentially poses an existential threat, because if Europe's GDP and industrial capacity relative to its neighbours continues to fall, it faces the risk of invasion by e.g. Russia.
Increase that to, oh, say 105%, and it'll turn around fast. And debt, which is more or less the single leftover untaxed source of income for the EU's rich, will lose value far faster. This will then immediately make it much harder for the EU's countries to lend, which will therefore immediately achieve exactly what conservatives claim they want.
Here in Colorado even people at entry level jobs can afford a nice home. Salaries are way lower in NL, and housing is incredibly expensive.
But the media just doesn't report on it. You don't notice it unless you live in both places. Still a beautiful country though and USA has it's own problems as well.
But yes, even many policy wonks / talking heads don't seem to realize the divergence between EU15 and the US since 2007.
Over that same period, American GDP per capita has more than doubled, even after adjusting for inflation.
Which means that European GDP per capita has also more than doubled. 75% of an increasing number is also an increasing number.
> Salaries are way lower in NL, and housing is incredibly expensive.
This is true, however there is so much that is already paid for with the Dutch salaries that you have to arrange individually in the USA. Mind you a lot is collectively organized which would be impossible to arrange individually to the same level.
I think there are a lot of people in the USA with "entry level jobs" choosing to afford a nice home but perhaps have some other things not as well arranged skewing the observers image, for example working a lot of hours or not having a better health insurance coverage.
In the end I feel like the welfare of the median person in each country is very important and I feel like the NL scores on that way higher when compared to the USA. For example healthcare, education, infrastructure, food safety etc.
Above the average(note average is not median) you are probably better of in the USA but below the average you are probably better of in NL.
Housing is expensive and we built far too little in the last decades, but this is also extremely expensive the the areas of the US where you actually want to live (The coastal cities, usually). Besides, this seems to be a global issue you read about everywhere.
I feel that, on average, most things in the Netherlands are of a higher standard — from public infrastructure and transportation to healthcare and the overall quality of everyday things, whether it’s food, trains, hotels, or even the items in your bathroom. Every time I travel back and forth I notice this.
Sure, salaries for certain jobs are much higher in the US, but I wouldn't want to switch except to begin a startup, maybe. I like doing business in the US and would visit for the amazing national parks, but prefer actually living in NL. That said, a rise in salaries and perhaps a more business and capital friendly environment are things I support.
Colorado is big. Try that in Aspen ;->
Europe seems to effectively follow American culture and practices with a dampener. Being America with healthcare and college funds has not been much of a vision for the future.
There wasn't anything special.
It was just debt.
That's a complete misunderstanding of Europe.
> Being America with healthcare and college funds has not been much of a vision for the future.
It provides much lower costs (healthcare) and a healthier and better educated citizenry and workforce.
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/d...
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/median-age?country=USA~GB...
We get what we deserve...
When a Democrat returns to power in the USA, nobody will care what European vassal governments and corporations say or do anymore.
American projection through Europe has made Europe weaker and more subservient than ever.
> It explores Fisher's concept of "capitalist realism", which he describes as "the widespread sense that not only is capitalism the only viable political and economic system, but also that it is now impossible even to imagine a coherent alternative to it."
> The book investigates what Fisher describes as the widespread effects of neoliberal ideology on popular culture, work, education, and mental health in contemporary society
It seems to always come back to the fact that people who get power always attempt to use that power to get more resources and power, violating all their supposed values and stealing resources from the public.
Personally, I am far from enamored with the apparent equilibrium state of capitalism, if that’s what we have in the US. However, when you compare how I feel about American capitalism to how I feel about North Korean totalitarianism, Venezuelan corrupt socialism, Soviet murderous communism, Cuban destructive communism, etc etc. suddenly I appear to be a booster for capitalism.
Seems no different in capitalism.
Ever considered that the failures of other methods does not inherently mean the success of the current method.
I wish that folks would consider reducing the work week, or universal basic income --- the total amount of human labour necessary to feed, clothe, house, and entertain humanity is decreasing --- how does society handle vast swathes of the population being not just unemployed, but unemployable, and to the wealthy, unnecessary?
One view on this is to be seen in Marshall Brain's novella "Manna":
How do Europeans get rich enough to have that life you dream about in Europe once you're rich enough from making money in America to move there?
My health insurance for a family of 4 in Spain is $2k/year. In the US, $20k+ (premiums, copays, etc). Why? Combined market cap of UHC and CVS as of this comment is $391B. (Just one example, there are many)
(am American who splits his time in Europe, and agrees with thread parent Europe > US; the US is an extraction engine, at its core)
You earn locally and spend locally. It's about local buying power and wealth, not about $197.644,50 > £60,000.
AIUI it's 10 years to get an EU - sorry, Latvian - passport and for an individual year to count towards that you need 183+ days a year in Latvia
The point is getting a residence permit in EU country is step 1, and step 1 is accessible to fairly average white collar US worker who wants to move to the EU.
* Median rent price in the city: one-bedroom apartment is around €1,000/month; 3-bedroom apartment around €1,500-€2,000.
Those greater goals are easier to achieve when you are the biggest economy of the world.
The key insight here, however, is that being the biggest economy in the world or growth is not a goal in itself. It is an enabler of all sorts of quality of life goals, but don't make the mistake of sacrificing the end for the means.
You still need a strong economy and middle class tax base to have any sort of welfare state.
The top 1% of the people hold 30% of all the wealth. The top 10% hold 60% of the wealth.
Why not directly work in the EU?
The cultural influence that the US exercises outwards with Hollywood, music, etc cannot be understaded.
Honestly, US is currently in a stage that Europe was long time ago. Greed, nationalism, military might, fast paces unchecked advancements in tech, rampant religious fundamentalism and sectarianism etc. All those thing are stuff Europeans went through.
That's why the Charles Dickens stories fit nicely.
Sure restaurant prices are about the same … for 1/3rd the amount of food.
I do not think there is an ethical way to challenge the American economy. It'd be like trying to beat the costs of Dubai's construction industry without enslaving Asians.
I am afraid that is not a problem exclusive to the United States. Perhaps it is more prevalent there, I don't have the numbers, but it also happens in Europe. What we don't usually have is a "backdoor" for slavery in the form of penal labor enshrined in our Constitutions.
> I do not think there is an ethical way to challenge the American economy.
Supporting a negligent leader so that he gets elected can undermine it.
Not that I think that is ethical, either. But it is more "efficient", in terms of resources spent.
I don't know if you meant to exclude this using the word "usually", but Germany has a backdoor for slavery in the form of penal labor enshrined in its constitution [1]. And it's not just enshrined in the constitution, it is actually active law [2].
[1] In the German constitution, Article 12 (3), it says:
> Zwangsarbeit ist nur bei einer gerichtlich angeordneten Freiheitsentziehung zulässig.
[2] In the StVollzG, Section 41 (1), it says:
> Der Gefangene ist verpflichtet, eine ihm zugewiesene, seinen körperlichen Fähigkeiten angemessene Arbeit, arbeitstherapeutische oder sonstige Beschäftigung auszuüben, zu deren Verrichtung er auf Grund seines körperlichen Zustandes in der Lage ist.
I think Europe could do much better without destroying safety nets. Starting a business should be easier and hiring people should be easier too. And in general a little more ambition couldn't hurt.
I think you're thinking that the US got ahead through exploiting labor. You missed the biggest piece of it though - the US welcomes (or at least until recently used to welcome) massive amounts of highly-educated immigrants from all over the world, and crucially has built a culture and society where those people can feel "American" fairly quickly in a way that they would never if they moved to Switzerland or France.
Being able to brain-drain the entire world and then smartly arm those people with unlimited capital to build their companies and dreams is the "unfair" American advantage. It isn't unethical, it's just not something European society supports. That, and the 30-year mortgage.
2) the brain-drain is unethical because it takes subsidised education of individuals without returning anything in return. Emmigrants should get a bill of the cost of their upbringing. It's really free-loading, especially for a country with such a poor public education system as the US.
The US had 6.3% GDP deficit in 2024, meanwhile it's 3% in the EU. The US is growing on debt, and on its way to become Japan.
Even on EU's worst debt crisis times, it didn't run such a big deficit as the US.
Add in the fact that the EU has accepted the Meta/Google tax in advertising, among other US' interests businesses. Which it can change its mind and get such businesses in trouble.
Not to forget about shale oil. The US became the biggest oil producer BY A WIDE MARGIN.
But it's all based on a $60 barrel, if the oil barrel goes back to $40, you'd see most of those companies filing bankrupcy and trillions disappearing. Here's another industry that the US government will need subsidize further with more US debt and taxpayers money.
There's a lot of risk attached to the US' recent growth, people would be naive to not consider them. We'd have to see if that trend lives for longer, and what are the tradeoffs.
The EU could decide to also destroy its country, feed people a lot of corn syrup and diabetes, and provide them GLP-1 drugs to increase its GDP.
Or just make the european believe that big cars are great, and they need a 5 bedroom house for 3 people.
All this would push that holy productivity number UP, but does it make rational sense to do that? Nope.
Now it's the opposite: almost everything is demand-limited. If you asked a good economist "what factory needs building?", the answer would be none. Or the answer would be something like "the EU is about to outlaw calculator imports from China, build that factory".
One of these environments makes it much, much harder to grow.
Obviously this is a general trend, not a rule.
Could you give examples of economists saying that? There are current economic problems but those are self-inflicted. Before that, labor was in high demand in the US, in order to build and operate factories, etc.
Europe has its fair share of issues, but a lot of them can still be traced back to unresolved wealth pumps and neoliberal policies weakening the state and labor force in favor of business and billionaire interests. There’s also unresolved questions about how much of America’s economic growth is tangible versus theoretical, given the dilapidated state of America’s infrastructure and ballooning national debt problem. Neutering what makes Europeans so much happier than their American peers just for the sake of “productivity” comes off as gallingly tone deaf to the practical realities on the ground.
It may be insane, but it's not something dreamed up by billionaires.
It’s a recipe for disaster, and I cannot support it. That’s just my personal position.
Citation needed, and not to a Facebook Quiz-tier “how happy are you on a scale of ten” questionnaire.
My experience is obviously anecdotal, but it is quite varied, and the exact opposite.
When “the larger consensus” is built on nothing but bullshit soft science coming out of the hard-left humanities departments and old Soviet propaganda that’s still echoing in people’s minds today, I’m just going to ignore it and form my own impression.
Is it your position that Europe just hasn’t done socialism hard enough? Can you point to an example of a country who has successfully done what you’d like to see?
No, obviously, but I can see how folks who cannot grasp the complexity and nuance of geopolitics might reach for classic boogeyman arguments like this one.
> Can you point to an example of a country who has successfully done what you’d like to see?
If I could, then it’s a certainty others would have emulated them by now as well. Don’t you dare try and say that “because a prior example does not exist, therefore this idea is bad”, because the entire technology field is built on people trying the same old ideas in different ways and finding out something that works better in the process. Be better in your retort rather than try and throw cheap barbs for karma.
Sure it’s possible that no one has ever tried the flavor of socialism that bypasses the corruption and power-seeking all rulers have been prone to for millennia. But it is a weak argument to rely on that.
All we know is no one has proven a non-corrupt fully socialist state that actually has a good economy has been achieved. Both that and cold fusion might be someday achieved, but I think cold fusion is orders of magnitude more likely. All it takes is one bad-faith leader to bring down a political system, so even if it’s achieved it may not be worth it.
Why do I say a good economy? Because I assert that even with its flaws, it’s way nicer to be a very-low-wage earner here than even to be median in Mao’s China or modern-day DPRK. So if you have perfect equality with a worthless economy it’s not really a victory.
Also, please stop this colonialist nonsense about spreading our way of live elsewhere. If the world wants to use our model of life as an example, great otherwise leave them the hell alone! Want to help them out of poverty? Trade with them on fair conditions. Don’t give them scraps in exchange for doing as they’re told! China seems to be doing that much better than Europe ever did.