A Letter from Tim Cook on Maps
apple.com
apple.com
Let's assume that Apple's contract with Google was ending soon, and that Google had failed to deliver features for Apple (turn by turn, etc), meaning Apple wanted to go a different direction.
Sure, Apple then started buying up mapping companies, building their own product, but they must have known they were on a tight schedule. My question is -- why didn't they partner with Microsoft to use Bing maps?
Microsoft gets a huge win in that suddenly 40 million people are using their service. Apple gets a win in that they have a pretty comparative product out of the gate to Google Maps, and it gives them time to build up their own service.
But instead, Apple released maps that had 1/3rd the quality of the maps they had before. Where's the logic in that?
Far better to rip the band-aid off now, tune the dataset over time, and ultimately emerge with a better overall experience that you now control completely. Already the system-wide integration of mapping is far superior in that regard. That just wasn't going to happen with Google or any other partner which would forever live as a walled garden of an App.
Inaccurate mapping data is, after all, a (relatively) finite problem.
Not if you live in the area that has very low resolution maps. IMHO "finite problem" is an antithesis to accurate maps. Mapping requires constant improvement. For example roads in the area where I live have been modified 3 times in last 5 years.
They run iCloud on Windows Azure, why not run their map service using Bing Maps data?
It's a first generation product. By putting it out there and getting actual user feedback, this should accelerate the development.
Even if Apple has, let's say, 90% of the map data/information that Google does, the minute you are sent to the wrong location, or to a store that doesn't exist, or try to get transit directions and can't, or get routed via the most convoluted route possible to your destination, the Maps app has failed.
However, is it a mission-critical app? What percentage of the userbase actually needs maps on a day to day basis? What did you do in 2005 when your GPS completely failed? You call the destination... it's not like you don't have a phone in your hand. Failing that, you ask a nearby stranger.
I presume Apple went ahead because Maps is likely less important to their userbase than, say, the Music app and definitely less critical than the browser.
Turn by turn navigation is awesome though. Once they've worked out the kinks I'm sure this experience will be better overall.
Even in 2010, 5 years after they launched, they got the border between Nicaragua and Costa Rica wrong. This rendered Google Maps worthless. They should have just shelved the whole project right then.
Don't even get me started on Waldseemüller. So much worse than worthless!
And while you may have considered it a "fifth generation product", Google Maps went virtually untouched between iOS 1.1.3 and iOS 5.1. Although its map data was very accurate, its feature set was sorely lacking when compared to Google's map app on Android.
I sympathize with people who have encountered inaccuracies, but that hasn't been my experience so far. Hopefully, this will get worked out and we'll end up with a map app that is both accurate and has a competitive feature set.
* TeleAtlas, which is in bed with Google
* Navteq, which is owned by Nokia, which has a deal to provide maps to Bing
So now maps is one of the few areas where both Google/Android and Microsoft/Nokia have a blatant advantage over Apple. Why would they want to give that up?
What Google does have is that they partner with whomever has the best available information in the area of interest (check out the copyright info when you scroll around the world on google maps on the web) and augment that with streetview, Yellow Pages, crowdsourced info from Android, etc (and vetted by hand)
It also strikes me that Apple Maps do not have a web interface (unless I'm wrong). In my experience, anytime something I care about in my neighborhood is misplaced on Google Maps, I use the web interface to correct the location. Without this ability, I imagine that it could take Apple a long time to reach parity with Google Maps.
As they say, the enemy of my enemy is my friend -- partnering with Apple would boost their Bing Maps market share into double digit percentage growth, all the while taking Google's map market share down. Even if you know the relationship won't last long and that in the end you'll have another competitor in the space, the rewards far outweigh the risks.
It's far better to take down the king and fight for the throne than to always be a peasant.
Mine too, but because Apple is incorrectly naming the subdivisions with random POI. Like a small condo building becoming the name for a whole neighborhood. It seems random and almost entirely incorrect.
EDIT: Blog post from someone living in China extolling the virtues of iOS 6 maps http://anthonydrendel.com/blog/2012/9/24/ios-maps-and-china....
Whilst I'm sure they'd have gotten a 1-year licensing agreement with Microsoft I can only guess it'd come with a steep price tag on. Plus they'd just been burnt by dealing with a third party. Plus (again, sorry), they need to have the Maps application being used by people worldwide to improve the quality. It doesn't get better with time, it gets better with users moaning.
While it isn't perfect being the only big map player in that system means that over time customers will just accept that is their only option, and those with problems will see improvements. By the time Google releases a map app many customers may already be committed to the default experience.
Some folks may continue to make comparisons between the two and switch back, but the majority may not and thus an easy win for Apple where if there were a competing Google Maps they would face a far steeper challenge even with time to improve their own product.
As for partnering with MS I think Apple simply wanted to go on their own considering that they were already were severing a partnership over maps.
Quite frankly, Google has had plenty of time to be working on a Maps application for iOS. It's not like they have to reinvent the wheel with this, they have iOS development teams and experience with mobile mapping applications.
I think that Google willfully chose not to have a product ready. It's a good explanation when you realize they had months of lead time, and when you factor in all of the CEO "I don't know nothing' about no app" comments.
> over time customers will just accept that is their only option
As Tim Cook mentioned, there are already map apps available for Bing, MapQuest and Waze, and turn-by-turn navigation apps from all the major players. Google announced that they have not submitted their own maps app for iOS.
Unless, perhaps rightly, you're considering Google the only major player. More reason for Apple to switch now.
Why go through Microsoft when their data is Nokia based anyway?
"But if the old agreement between Apple and Google expired in the first half of 2013 (which, again, my own sources familiar with the matter agree to be the case), that means the deal was set to expire halfway through the expected year-long life cycle for iOS 6. If Apple had stuck with Google Maps for another year they would have been forced to renegotiate with Google in a situation where both sides at the table would know that Apple either (a) had to agree to whatever terms Google demanded to extend the deal; or (b) would be forced to swap the mapping back-end of iOS 6 midway through its development cycle."
http://daringfireball.net/2012/09/timing_of_apples_map_switc...
Gruber is a known shill who writes 50 shades of gray for Apple-fans.
Google is adding features to it's own mobile OS maps app while withholding those features from it's competitor. Google offered to include the features in exchange for ads and customer data, two things Apple has always tried to minimize. Apple historically defaults to accepting the pain of adopting new technology too early as opposed to too late.
The recent issue between Netflix and Starz will show you why it is a major focus.
As much as we'd like to ignore people/business issues, sometime they trump tech and social networking issues.
I can easily envision Tim Cook doing this. The whole world is watching, and there is major ego on the line. The last thing on earth he'd want is for wall street to see that google had him by the balls.
Not that Jon Gruber is guarenteed to be right, but it certainly has the ring of truth.
Edit: Of course, if wall street were really paying attention, they'd see that apple behaved this badly because Google in fact had them by the balls. Thank god they're not the sharpest tools in the shed over there.
If it has come to Apple issuing a public apology for shipping a partly-baked replacement for an important core app, the old version of which they are still licensed to distribute for another year...
Why not put iOS 5 Maps in the App Store, and pull it down next summer?
I was talking with a friend of mine last night on the iPhone. She was complaining that her iPhone was working poorly, and she was frustrated with it. I asked if she had updated to iOS 6 yet, since sometimes a restore cycle can clear things up. She told me, no, she wasn't, because she heard maps were terrible. I said, "did you hear they are terrible, or have you used them and think they're terrible?" She said she heard only. Interestingly, though, she said she had been using turn-by-turn with "a voice telling her when to turn." I asked her to go to Settings and check, and sure enough, she had updated and actually liked new Maps.
I don't deny that new Maps aren't at the level that GMaps were, but they're not really that terrible, either. Unless you required a feature that is gone now (transit, which I don't), then it's really not so bad, at least in my experience, and has improved since the betas.
I think this is another example of the biggest general complaint about apple Maps, that it's too US-centric. Here in Europe a mapping program that can't do transit is a joke.
Google Maps never had any transit info in Germany. It never was a joke, it always was awesome (even if always fraught with problems and errors).
I also think that's why Apple released it: there are genuine improvements in some areas, but they underestimated how important the missing features are to some people. For some people, the transit features are the reason to use Maps, so it's obviously inferior for them.
How many of the users don't require accurate, up-to-date map data in a map application?
iOS was the choice for the lead mobile platform but with iOS6 take up levels running high we may have to switch to Android to be able to demonstrate all of our ideas.
I do believe that vector graphics are far superior to GMaps' tiles.
I knew there was another, better hospital with a better reputation down the freeway (perhaps 5 miles) and wanted to call to ask what their wait time was. I searched "hospital" and the nearest one provided was 25 miles away. I knew where the one I wanted was and it was no where to be found on iOS Maps.
I also searched for "emergency clinics" in various naming forms, knowing of the ones I would try first… and again, came up empty of all the ones that I knew existed.
I now have a shortcut to Google Maps on my home screen and will only use iOS maps for turn-by-turn directions. I was very frustrated to begin with that night, and Apple disaster of a Map app didn't help.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/21/tomtom-apple-maps-...
For me, search and POIs are slightly dysfunctional and some labels are out of whack – both of that, however, doesn’t seem to have any impact on my turn-by-turn experience. So I can believe that TomTom is not to blame here.
Better than if the underlying data is wrong, anyway.
(In contrast, I've had Waze tell me to turn left off of an interstate highway onto an underpass road. Because no one had set that as a disallowed turn. That's bad map data.)
Not one person posting on HN and the many blogs really knows what happened behind the scenes. Apple engineers are not known for being dumb. Someone had to know that Maps was a bad idea. A huge step backwards. They had to know.
So the question might very well be: Why did they do it?
This couldn't have been out of spite. Just to kick Google off the platform. One just doesn't do that. Maintaining a complex code-base such as iOS is difficult enough. Adding to that the friction of delivering a substandard product is not something one does without very good reasons.
Conjecture is all we have from the outside. My humble guess is that it had to come down to a business deal they did not want to make. The details of the deal are not important. Who was right and who was wrong isn't important. What is important is that whatever they had in front of them convinced Apple management that it they had no choice but to, effectively, downgrade the next release with Maps.
I already know of a lot of non-tech people, particularly outside the US, who are livid about Maps. After dutifully upgrading their devices to iOS 6 they discover that Maps are, in their words, "crap", "useless", "unreliable", "a joke", "not accurate", "una mierda" (shit), etc. The reason for the strong feelings is that, let's face it, if a good tool such as Google Maps is available to you, you might tend to use it.
And a lot of people would use it all the time. My own wife relies on Google Maps all the time. Thankfully she was wise enough to marry a geek who promptly told her not to upgrade her iPhone 4S to iOS 6 and not to swap it out for an iPhone 5. In fact, not one person in my family will do either of those things. And that is the case --that has to be the case-- for millions of people at this point.
This is the data we are not getting and that Apple will probably never release. I own eight iOS devices. Not one of them will be upgraded to iOS 6. In fact, the upgrades stop here until either Maps starts to get really good marks. And, of course, we probably would have purchased at least three iPhone 5's. Not happening. I'll get one for development but it will not be activated.
How many millions are in this boat? If someone is a heavy Google Maps user it makes no sense to get an iPhone 5. What's wrong with a 4S? Nothing. Use their website you say? Not the same, most would say.
As a developer there's a lesson that needs reinforcing every-so-often. What better way to reinforce it than to see a tech giant make some of the mistakes lesser companies make: If you can at all help it, don't base your product on someone else's technology. Don't make someone else's technology such an important part of your offering that not having them will hurt you. Of course, sometimes you have no choice.
As a user and a developer I view iOS 6 as a significant, if not huge, step backwards. Between Maps and the eviscerated app store one has to ask that cliche-ish question: What were they thinking?
Wouldn't we like to know.
Where do you live? If you live in the Valley, I'm sure it's fine, in fact I'm sure it's great, but elsewhere in the world the map data is pretty bad, much worse than Google Maps. People aren't all complaining about turn by turn directions in the US, they're complaining about basic flaws in map data around the world. So yes, they are using it, and it is not great.
Both the satellite data and the map data is woeful in some areas, some of it is so bad that I'm surprised they included it at all. Here are some examples which don't compare favourably with OSM or Google:
"Brighton, UK", Satellite - a big UK city is so blurry you can't see streets.
"Grand Cayman, Cayman Islands" - ends up in the middle of the sea, and no roads on the islands at all.
"Colchester" - satellite shows clouds, in B&W over a UK city
"Senkaku Islands" - compare satellite with standard to see actual duplicates of these disputed islands in the vector map data.
"Puno,Peru"- in lake Titicaca
"Central St Martins" - a major London college which relocated last year is still shown at its old address. The new address, which has been a warehouse for many years, is shown as a park named 'King's Cross Central' which doesn't exist. If their data on major cities is this bad, consider how bad the rural areas will be.
This is a really hard problem, and frankly I'm surprised Apple tried to without an extensive beta and data collection period in order to bring their data up to scratch. Just to give you an example of the sort of advantage this hands Google - Last weekend I tried to find a postcode in central London, and it wasn't found (N1C 4AA, a relatively new postcode for a major new development, but visible in Google and OSM with lots of detail). A colleague with an SIII found it no problem. That kind of comparison is a big problem for Apple.
The problem with maps is that if your data is, say, 10% bad or inaccurate (whatever that means) and you are serving two billion searches per week you have to contend with tens of millions of unhappy users. Bad problem to have.
Will they fix it? Probably. How long? Someone far more knowledgeable of the challenges in mapping will have to answer that one.
For me and those close to me it is about the potential to break something that works very well right now. That alone is keeping us from upgrading software and hardware. It's the old "if it ain't broke don't fix it" saying.
As for turn-by-turn. I live in SoCal. I rarely need it. When I do, I throw an old GPS I keep in the car on the dashboard and it works just fine. Most of the time (99% ?) I use Google Maps on my 4S.
I was stranded at O'Hare earlier this week, and United put me up at the "Crown Plaza", according to my hotel voucher. I searched for "Crown Plaza" in iOS6 maps, and was suddenly transported to Vancouver. In Google Maps, it correctly surmised I was actually looking for the nearby "Crowne Plaza".
iOS6 maps is 95% as good as google maps, but the missing 5% really hurts.
http://i.imgur.com/Dktjo.jpg - This is the view of a nearby wood in Apple Maps. Take a look at those thin grey lines in the big green area. I'm not sure if I could see them on the map walking there in bright sunlight. If you zoom out just a little more, the trails vanish completely from the map and the whole screen is just a big green area. To actually see a trail well enough you have to zoom in so much that you lose the overview and don't know where you're actually looking.
http://i.imgur.com/DDx7R.png - This is the same are in Google Maps. Great contrast, good color palette and you can distinguish the larger from the smaller trails and roads. There's also a lot more information.
My primary use of maps is public transit directions. Not having turn-by-turn is an inconvenience that is fixed, but losing public transit isn't just an inconvenience; there is no work around to get the directions I need at all.
For any feature there is going to be some subset of users that pretty much only use that one feature, so I can't really say how common of a user I am in that regard.
And that's the problem - if I don't fully trust it, it loses a lot of its utility. I downloaded the Bing app as a backup. I still like the new UI and the turn-by-turn.
As for business listings, its not like this is a solved problem. Everyone knows that google maps is not perfect for that. It's not as bad as apple maps but it's wrong enough of the time that I don't trust it, every now and then I forget it doesn't work and find myself standing outside a delivery bay, late for an appointment... I suspect most people google for a store/company/whatever, check the website to see if it offers what they want then copy paste the zip/postcode from the contact page into the maps app to get them close enough.
Apple's biggest problem is that they botched the PR, even if they fix the zip/postcode data quickly, no one will believe its fixed for a long time now.
So perhaps Google was just better at guessing the kinds of queries I might be making when I opened maps.
In time, and I suspect shorter than people estimate, the data quality will vastly improve. No software is perfect on the first release, and apples software is no exception. iTunes used to be glitchy in its early days, me.com was terrible when it first came out, but these issues have been rectified for the most part.
Google maps once led me 18 miles into the middle of nowhere for a dentist appointment. Sure, this error is fixed now, but the dentist office shows up correctly on maps. So It seems like here (in California) the data is better than it was when google maps was new.
I suspect by end of year, the majority of use-cases will work fine in many more places than california. Who knows, but if I were betting.. :)
And as a side note I recently switched back to an iPhone after the latest Google Maps update caused my phone to hard lock and reboot. Take a look here: http://support.t-mobile.com/docs/DOC-4703 It affected my previous HTC Sensational device. Basically maps, or mapping services (which is a lot of apps including background ones) randomly caused your phone to reboot.
So far, all the addresses I've tried are correct, and the driving directions and speech recognition are a step forward. The tube/bus directions from Google were always inaccurate, so I was already using a dedicated app.
I get that they wanted to open up transit for other apps (or couldn't build it in for some reason) but I really do hate the amount of times I have to tap to get bus info now. I would much rather the integration.
For this, Google Maps works great, except when the bus site isn't working properly, which tends to be once a year when we have a massive influx of people come to town.
One of the main critiques has been the removal of transit directions. It was missing Shibuya station. For heaven's sake, that's like missing Grand Central Station. People in NYC would be shorting APPL...
Well, it's a FUBAR on that scale. It's just not visible if you drive a car, especially in California.
The only missing use case for me is street view. I've used it extensively in the past to look at houses when I was home shopping.
Would love to revert to IOS 5 if it's possible
A theory:
Maybe they did it because Apple has an unhealthy, top-down corporate culture that doesn't encourage dissent or whistle-blowing? Nobody said stop because it isn't the Apple way?
To me (not an Apple user or Apple employee) their corporate culture, their values, are defined by secrecy, leader-worship, and a particular kind arrogance. Not necessarily at the level of individual employees, but throughout the organisation as a whole. In such environments, especially when the company is highly successful and seems to be able to do no wrong, it becomes difficult for individuals and even groups to say stop. And even bad ideas and technologies gain momentum.
Apple is a great company, make great products, and deserve their success. I just hope that Tim Cook is trying to get rid of the leader worship that surrounded Steve Jobs.
You're assuming Apple had other choice other than make a Maps.app from the ground up. I don't think it's the case. All the apps that used Google's data (YouTube, Maps) just stopped getting updates after Android. It's obvious their contract with Google ended and they had to ship something. I'm sure everybody acknowledged the solution was subpar, just saying "it sucks, don't ship it" isn't a solution.
http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/31/3207482/nexus-q-consumer-l...
They know exactly that. Luckily, it's a server driven service, so over time everything can magically get better. They are going to aggressively harvest user data throughout the getting better process. Their options were: launch bad and get better as fast as possible (using millions of devices for feedback) or spend a few years doing things by hand then still releasing something subpar. Rip the bandaid off now.
In every other case HN screams "more data > clever algorithms!" -- this is their way of more data. It'll be painful at first, but it will get better quickly. It has only been a week since public public release. It has been sucking in betas for months too. None of this is new, exciting, or newsworthy. Release your burdens and get back to work.
Reporting mapping errors on a small device is painful and cumbersome, especially if you're outdoors or trying to get somewhere. Like Google, Bing or Nokia maps, can you access and report errors in the maps from a laptop or desktop? If not, this process is going to be way slower.
Steve Jobs held a press conference for "Antennagate": http://www.apple.com/apple-events/july-2010/
Then they tell everyone "you're just holding it wrong" and insult people with "X marks the spot" and "look at this beautiful line here".
I couldn't stand much more after that. That is not an apology, it's a display of arrogance. And some might very well claim that this whole Map thing is a result of the dysfunctional work environment people are under at Apple.
This letter says "We are extremely sorry." Extremely! Imagine Steve Jobs saying, "I am extremely sorry" is tough to imagine. Possible, but tough to imagine.
By releasing a crap version of Maps:
1. Everyone now knows that Apple has their own version of Maps.
2. The story has become, "Look how hard Apple is working to make it better."
One can see this in the Tech press already, e.g. Apple posting jobs, hiring ex-Googler's and Cooke's letter have supplanted criticism.
It is inevitable that the next release of maps will be covered with great fanfare and that the bulk of the stories will praise Apple for how much improvement they have made. Cooke's sincerity and the key hiring strategy will be mentioned. In other words, no matter how far behind their competition the next release of maps is, the standard narrative will reflect positively on Apple.
All of this is based on the fact that the quality of Maps is not a critical component of the decision tree within the market segment which buys iOS devices. Yes, there is perhaps a meaningful minority of people for whom Maps is a deal breaker when it comes to an iPhone. The same doesn't hold true when it comes to iPads or iPods. "Nobody" buys an iPod as a GPS [scare quotes because there is someone hacker who has].
> We want to do the right thing for our valued iPhone customers. We apologize for disappointing some of you, and we are doing our best to live up to your high expectations of Apple.
Steve Jobs
Apple CEO
Regarding knowing maps wasn't up to snuff... I think people knew but it's a funny thing. I worked on satellite receivers in a different life and TV has become such a ubiquitous and reliable enough service, you'd be amazed at how people just freak the hell out when their complex HD dual tuner PVR does something that's not as expected; just freak the hell out and scream at support folks. Little old ladies watching re-runs that they've seen before would melt down, it was interesting, almost like drug withdrawal or something. (Enough so that for certain events: the SuperBowl, the Academy Awards, sweeps season) they wouldn't do system updates. Maps is maybe a little less like that but it's much more personal, I've used the new maps with no problems but I just did a couple basic searches to check it out. However when you're counting on it to get you somewhere and it fails and you're late for whatever it is or you can't make a purchase because you're not at the store and it impacts you directly it's probably pretty upsetting. Gauging that personal rage is more difficult and I expect there are areas where the new maps really kills it, I bet the guys in Cupertino don't have problems with it doing their day to day stuff.. Don't forget, we didn't have these maps not that long ago, hard as it seems now pre-iPhone next to nobody was using this stuff, now it's substantial navigational aid.
As a society, we sort of like it when #1 has some trouble. Sort of like Toyota's problems a couple years back. The real question is is this going to raise the benchmark? Say Apple takes it to heart completely, it's hard to compete with them now, what's it look like if they step it up more? It certainly says something to google maps' quality, maybe some more competition is a good thing.
1. Maps is in beta, when Apple never let anyone see anything without polish.
2. There were no cases or accessories in the Apple store. Best Buy has third party stuff as do other stores. But that is money left on the table for someone else to pick up.
3. No adapters. The local Apple store didn't get any and doesn't expect them for weeks.
I half-joked to my wife that this post-Jobs era is already starting to unravel. Only half because I worry I am right and I don't want to be.
>The fact that such a public letter had to be issued means that there's a lot of push-back. Apple just doesn't do that. In fact, I don't remember any software company doing this. I could be wrong. This feels unprecedented.
This is a gross overreaction and just a few examples from the comments below indicate Apple not only did this with earlier computing products, but did with the original iPhone, the antennae issue a while back. Netflix did too with their Quickster debacle.
Calm down. Maps is bad, but it will be fixed. Apple is still the most valuable company in the world. The iPhone 5 is still in the top 95% of devices on the market. Things will be okay.
Is that correct? I'm not saying it's unreasonable. It isn't the path I'd take though, and I find it a bit surprising.
I'm also curious, you say you have eight iOS devices and won't be upgrading any of them because of Maps. Do you use Maps on all of them? Or is your choice to upgrade none of them more about taking a stand?
There's a LONG list of bugs/issues in OSX and IOS that have been around for years. Some of these issues have huge threads on Apple's own forums. They might get around to fixing them. But the reason some of these haven't been fixed is lack of press. Which is sad really.
Look, I've been an Apple fan-boy from way back (longer than many of you have been alive). And I am getting damn tired of Apple's "perfect world". I bet they released Apple Maps really not expecting any complaints. Really. Apple is probably shocked at the reaction.
But I also bet that the majority of people using IOS6 don't have problems with Maps.
According to their sources, Google was keeping Apple from adding turn-by-turn directions without complying to some conditions that were too onerous for Apple.
Hardly so – Apple had to issue a similar mea culpa for Mobile Me back around this time in 2008. The big difference is that instead of apologizing to a small subset of customers, Apple has had to address all iOS 6 users. So this time it has to come from the CEO. (But don't think for a minute Steve didn't help pen the last one.)
They've been here, with a mouthful of crow, before. Large-scale, cloud-based services are not in Apple's DNA, so every time they try it seems to hurt the first time around.
I keep thinking it mirrors the introduction of Final Cut Pro X, in that a fundamentally broken product was dropped, without warning, on a group of users who relied on it heavily. Meanwhile, FCP 7 was yanked from the market at the exact same time - again, without warning - meaning (very) established users couldn't continue to rely on a very good system until the "improved" system was actually improved.
I remember seeing an extraordinary amount of dismissiveness on this very board from people with no media or post experience who were sneeringly characterizing editors and post-producers as neo-luddites who simply didn't understand technology (!) and who didn't want to change. The idea that Apple could have taken a big step backwards and tripped while doing so seemed like anathema. "Clearly" the fault must be with the users. "You just have to adapt to what MUST be good for you" came the refrain.
From the perspective of people who actually knew what they were doing, this came as insult added to injury. All the cloying remarks about Apple "simply moving the cheese (to a better spot!)" missed the real point, which is that Apple had made the cheese inedible then thrown it off a cliff. And they'd done so without warning, leaving a lot of heavy investments in equipment, media, and skills in the lurch.
Because it all this played out in a specialized niche, most people ignored it. Apple's chief competitors (Avid and Adobe) jumped on it, and life moved on - with Apple's once-sterling reputation in the professional post-production market forever dimmed.
Now that the same pattern is playing out with Maps. The big differences are (a) Maps are insanely mainstream - everybody notices this (b) Maps - unlike video editing - are absolutely central to mobile computing in general and (c) Mobile computing is clearly the future of not just Apple, but computing in general. So now there's a replay of the FCP X blowback, but this time, it's headline news worldwide. And the obvious response (switch to another system) isn't one Apple can afford having this many people make.
I have no idea what prompted this fiasco. Much of it may be external to Apple (e.g. a Google deal they couldn't live with). But judging from the reckless and completely unnecessary way they botched the FCP 7-X transition, I suspect something unique to Apple's culture is on display here.
It isn't pretty. But judging from the letter, Tim Cook seems to get it. They really Really REALLY need to get Maps right, and I really hope they do. The iPhone5 is beautiful, but I'm holding onto my 4S and its access to Google.
The iPhone 5 and iOS 6 are merely evolutions of what came before them, and there are very few reasons for people to upgrade. Apple runs a real risk of losing customers over this (i.e., people keep their perfectly good iDevice and buy an Android/WP device to try them out). Maybe this is the proverbial kick in the pants that Apple needs to make sure the next iPhone and iOS version are more baked coming out the door.
It seems like this is evidence of the opposite. Apple based its technology on another company, and it became the most valuable company in the world. It stopped using the other companies tech, and then it was forced to make an embarrassing public apology.
That is a lesson on the risks of depending on other platforms.
However, we are all dependent on others all the time. It really can't be avoided entirely. It's just a matter of degree and managing risk.
http://www.theverge.com/2012/9/25/3407614/apple-over-a-year-...
The gossip is that Google requested unacceptable licensing changes. Whatever the truth is, this situation is due to Apple and Google being unable to reach an agreement. Apple can and will recover this situation within a few months and, if Google dropped them into this situation, they will be looking for an opportunity to exact revenge.
I think you are being generous. I really think that's what it was about. It actually is the Occam's Razor explanation.
Again, when had a hardware company ever done such a thing?
Maps is a unique problem in that it's hard to judge quality without doing field tests all over the world. I guess Apple management/engineers/testers live in and did most of their testing in SFO/CA/West Coast/US in that order which gave them a skewed idea of how good or bad the maps were.
I guess I just live somewhere with decent map data.
With the launch of our shitty Maps last week, we fell short on this commitment. We are sorry for the frustration this has caused our customers but we are doing everything we can to make shitty Maps better, except to provide you what you want right now, a working map.
We launched shitty Maps initially with the first version of Orange. As time progressed, we wanted to provide our customers with even better shitty Maps including features such as really bad directions, never understands your voice integration, Flyover the wrong location and vector-based maps.
In order to do this, we had to create a new version of shitty Maps from the ground up, and though its not ready for prime time we are so worried about our competition that we dumped them prematurely from our walled garden and forced this abomination on you.
There are already more than 100 million Orange devices using the new shitty Maps, with more and more joining us every day. And you know that this is because we reduced your choice to our inferior product, which is what we have the right to do since we own your phone and you don't.
In just over a week, Orange users with the new shitty Maps have already searched for nearly half a billion locations and some actually did find a few locations. The more our customers use our Maps the sooner we will make another billion dollars and we greatly appreciate the fact you have no real choice now that you have our phone in your pocket.
While we’re improving shitty Maps, you can try alternatives by downloading map apps from the Orange Store, but good luck finding them as we also created a new nightmare in our Apps store that makes replacing our shitty apps more difficult than ever. We know that the huge majority of Orange users won't have a clue as to what we mean by bookmarking, and of course that is just fine with us. Just use our maps anyway, just like we planned.
Everything we do at Orange is aimed at making our products the only product you use. We know that you expect that from us, and we will keep working non-stop until EVERYONE in our walled garden is tired of the BS and gets an Android.
Maybe you missed the part where they linked to an entire section of the store titled Map Apps.
See, for example, four years ago when they issued an apology and a free account extension for the launch of MobileMe: http://www.macworld.com/article/1134530/mobileme.html
Speaking from my own perspective, admission or not, I think it's the break in that expectation that has me disappointed.
Apple often releases products that many consumers would consider "incomplete". The only difference is that Apple never admitted to being wrong ever. Their branding depends on being seen as shiny software company-upon-a-hill. That's the only difference here, they admitted to making a bad decision. Their little spat with google just made this an unusually bad one; one that they couldn't paper over.
As I mention in my other follow-up comment here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4586212, the difference in this case is that the product is objectively incomplete: the data itself is measurably bad.
Does a bad UI make software like iTunes "incomplete"? Again, it depends on your perspective. Missing, or bad data, as is the case in this instance, seems to be a bit less contentious, as can be seen in the quasi-unanimous anger towards the new maps.
What? You either drag and drop, or purchase with one click from the store. It could not possibly be easier.
Let's hope, for the sake of those people at least, Apple can get some better data.
First off, it would probably be a really good PR move for Google.
Second, if Apple dragged their feet in terms of approval and Google sued them, it might force some changed in terms of how anti-competitively the App store behaves. I could totally see the Justice Dept or FTC stepping in the way they did with Microsoft.
Lastly, if Google added their maps app, it would immediately supplant the Apple app, and a lot less people would use Apple Maps. This would give Apple less data to make their maps better, and keep them at a competitive disadvantage for years.
Very valuable.
PR move wise, they've already won the PR battle. Everybody who owns an iPhone 5 or everyone who has considered buying an iPhone 5 now knows that Google (and now Android) has a superior maps offering. By offering a Google Maps app on the iPhone, it just gives customers one reason less to stick with Android.
It will be hard for Google to prove the anti-competitiveness of the App store. It would be quite interesting though - Android has the ability to use different App stores, while Apple certainly does not. It sounds unfair, but I wonder if a court feels the same way.
Pretty sure Apple will be at a disadvantage for years regardless. They've never been a data company as it is, and there's no reason to believe that they could suddenly go out and put together their own maps like Google has done. Better maps does not necessarily equate to having more usage data either.
If Apple is reluctant to approve a Google Maps app, and Google claims that they have the app ready and waiting but Apple won't approve it, customers will be pissed. This would put even more pressure on Apple.
Google could absolutely prove anti-competitiveness of the App store, by simply releasing the app that existed on iOS5. If it's the exact same app, with no new features, Google could ask the question why it was good enough for iOS5, but not iOS6. If Apple is restricting its availability simply because Apple has their own maps app, it could definitely be shown as being anti-competitive, and if the DOJ or FTC started to investigate this, Apple would be in heaps of trouble. Apple would be stupid to risk getting a decision forced down their throats by the government, a la Microsoft.
The one thing that Google may be doing is waiting until after Thanksgiving or Christmas in order to release their new App. They might be letting the bad press over Maps could hurt sales of iPhone 5, and then releasing an app after January.
> Everybody who owns an iPhone 5 or everyone who has
> considered buying an iPhone 5 now knows that Google
> (and now Android) has a superior maps offering.
> They've never been a data company as it is
In order for that to happen a few things need to occur. First, the government needs to prove that Apple has a monopoly. Here are some numbers from NPD on smartphone marketshare domestically: https://www.npd.com/wps/portal/npd/us/news/press-releases/pr...
Apple: 31 percent Samsung: 24 percent HTC: 15 percent Motorola: 12 percent LG: 6 percent
So right there, it's a tough case to make that Apple has a dominant market monopoly as compared to Microsoft in 1998.
Here's a CNET article I found quickly from 1999, one year-ish after the DOJ brought their case: http://news.cnet.com/Windows-95-remains-most-popular-operati...
Windows 95 57.4 Windows 98 17.2 Windows NT 11 Mac OS 5 DOS 3.8 Linux 2.1 Windows 3.11 1.1 Unix .8 OS/2 .5 Others 1
So at that time Windows accounted for roughly: 87% of the market! And then beyond the government determining they had a monopoly, they had to show that Microsoft was abusing it's monopoly in anticompetitive ways. They concluded they were through agreements with OEMs and others to keep other software off the machines. Basically OEMs would install Windows and IE, and not make deals to install Netscape or other software. And part of that decision also had to do with the fact that in 1998-2000 as broadband was nascent in much of the country, getting new software wasn't exactly as easy as a 5 minute or less download.
And even still there are legitimate criticisms of the US DOJ case against Microsoft.
Finally though, it doesn't seem to me that this could be done by DOJ/FTC at all. Apple doesn't have a market monopoly. Since it is a device that they produce hardware and software for, and have from the beginning asserted full control over the app store, and other market alternatives (often cheaper) readily exist, I wouldn't expect any action.
If they don't allow a Google Maps app on the iPhone App Store, or if they drag their heels in approving the app, especially given all the outrage from the customers, I believe this is clearly anti-competitive behavior.
Once Google has one available, if Apple doesn't readily approve it, I think a very, very strong case could be made that they are holding back Google's app in order to help their App gain traction. Since only Apple has the power to approve or reject apps from the App Store, if that isn't the definition of anti-competitive, I don't know what is.
Maps are not Siri, they're not a shiny aluminum cover or impressively slim industrial design: they are one of the core features that people own smartphones for. Would you really get a smartphone that had totally broken maps?
So there's a race: how much can Google steal Apple's thunder before Apple can build a reasonably competitive maps application? I suspect Google is considering how much permanent damage they can score to Apple's marketshare through this debacle.
"We are extremely sorry"
I was quite surprised they listed competitors. Is this an unusual move or a normal/expected thing to do in a case like this?
I've not heard a single person using apple maps say "this is good", every single person states its a downgrade. Apple need to get their act together and realize what they've done is lost a major set of consumer confidence here and should do everything in their power to set the situation right.
I for one was about to do the switch from Android to iphone with the iphone 5 coming out. After seeing apple maps, i've decided that i'll probably just buy the new Nexus when it comes out. Maps are the most important app on my phone besides the dialer and text messaging...not having maps thats anything less than what i've got today is simply not something i'm willing to negotiate.
Google will and should do nothing, this is all completely in their favor at this point. IOS might just have taken its first fatal blow.
The IOS 5 app has what looks like the same satellite data as maps.google.com, but even older road topology (it lacks the detour you need to not end up in that garage)
So, from the (tiny) part I checked, IOS 6 has better maps than IOS 5. It may be worse on average, but how would a user objectively evaluate a map app that covers the world?
If you're honestly happier with this product then thats cool, but i'm not.
You wouldn't want Apple building iPlane this way, right?
The alternatives are almost the same as when it launched. Even having those. How many are having real problems or just hating because is the new fad?
I end up at a run down strip mall with no Verizon store in sight. So, I load up Google maps is Safari, and it finds and takes me to an actual Verizon store about 3 miles away.
So yes, people are having actual problems with Apple maps.
Let's just all remember that the old maps app was not flawless.
How much of this is the self-selected sample of those who are irritated enough to complain? Data is not he plural of anecdote.
- I am still waiting to get a correct location when searching by post code. - Searching by the street name sometimes gives me that same street name somewhere in the USA even with the GPS on and map centered on my current location. - I was in Holborn centered on my location, searched for a Nando's, it told me to go up that same street. Turns out it was down, wrong location for that Nando's. - It is much more difficult to differenciate between an underground and a rail station since they look almost the same unlike Google Maps or Bing Maps.
I have been using Google Maps mobile web app and the Bing native app with good results. Still a step backwards because both are much slower than the old Maps.
So yes, people are having real problems.
Small edit: I don't trust the new maps data anymore, that's the biggest problem though.
This isn't some hypothetical problem, this is going from maps I use all the time with success, to maps that have become vastly less useful.
To me it's much better that "this product is shit" than "ah it's apple, what do you expect?".
Why the current maps is what they are is left to conjecture, but I wonder that if there was a push-back about no turn-by-turn and lower quality maps for the past, idk, 2 years, if Apple would have released their new version of maps.
I never got the impression that Apple listened to or cared too much about what their customers wanted, nor do I think they have the required data abilities to deal with creating a good mapping algorithm. It is quite possible, that with zero to little feedback about no turn-by-turn, that iOS meant far more to the customer than maps. As a passive observer, I am wonder why maps alone is creating so much push-back. Isn't there something special about iOS that moves people to spend their hard-earned money on each next device, often with no convincing improvements, sight-unseen?
Do I believe that the software will improve? Yes.. eventually. I know in enterprise software provides like IBM tend to ship hardware with incomplete software and rely in service packs to complete the functions.And if Apple thinks that the same model will work for Consumer products, then they are plain wrong.
What should they have said? Simply "The more our customers use our Maps the better it will get and we greatly appreciate all of the feedback we have received from you" would have gotten the point across.
In the end all the effort ,features, and niceties doesn't matter if people simply doesn't like it.
None of the solutions recommended in this letter are good solutions. Loading a webpage adds how many different steps to getting an address, Bing and Mapquest are not available in the Canadian store, and Waze looks like a cheap gimmick to me(first impressions, it may be a good product).
I don't want to jump on the 'look at Apple falling' bandwagon, but this is a major blow to their reputation. I can appreciate the letter, but don't offer recommendations in your apology that don't work, that makes you look actually incompetent.
I'm not saying that it isn't a big stumble for Apple, because it is, but it's only going to get better (not that it can get much worse for some). Apparently maps are hard. Apple already knows this, and most of us are figuring this out too. But Apple have the resources to make it better, and I am willing to help.
This move was inevitable for Apple; it had to happen sooner or later, and the longer they waited, the bigger the gap they'd have to make up to be "on par" with Google Maps.
And Apple should start with a web interface to the maps. It would make correcting data a lot easier.
I almost lost it when they said to add Google maps as a web app. That seriously made me groan out loud.
Apple's maps application is just provably worse in terms of maps. Period. There is not much to spin there. It was obvious.
Apple shipped an iPhone without YouTube and without Maps. The whole set of decisions, including the form-factor, seems very un-Jobs-like.
However, owning up to the problem is something I applaud Cook for doing. Not only that, but look at what he suggests -- adding web apps to the desktop. Because he knows that once they fix the Maps app (by getting a better database), it will be superior to web apps!
Notice what Tim Cook did not say: download the alternative APPLICATIONS. Are there any?
I live near a park with a city rec center, pool, sports fields, etc. and a public high school. A little testing showed the following:
Google Maps: correctly labels all of the above, including building outlines
OpenStreetMaps: correctly labels everything but the school, but they do have building outlines and even parking lots marked.
Bing: nothing but the school name labeled at the nearest intersection rather than correctly in the middle of the [long] block.
Apple, Nokia, Map Quest: featureless void
Obviously Apple knew their solution was shit, but they released it anyway, hoping people wouldn't mind too much. That was their choice and now they have to deal.
This is not dealing.
It would've been nice to see OpenStreetMap get some mention though, as users who think OSM sucks can improve it and indirectly improve iOS maps at the same time.
I'm worried about Apple's software development lately (Lion, iTunes Match, Maps) but this apology makes me feel a little better about them acknowledging mistakes and working to fix it. I know they obviously have the in-house talent, they just need to get quality control back to mid-2000s form. Hopefully this dust-up over maps wakes them up.
Oh well!
I suppose I'm the only one to know that this software is driven by a service which, in time, will most definitely improve exponentially with use.
"Please take a look at our competitors, and learn to associate their brands with the subpar web versions of their mapping software."
Let's hope that Apple plays fair game and lets Google, Bing and other Maps applications compete with Apple Maps. If Apple Maps app can't become/remain the most popular app in the category for any number of reasons, Apple Maps will get reduced to a product which is forced on to users.
Just for the record, the Bing Mobile Maps application is top notch. I've used it frequently and the quality of the maps and interaction is slightly above the Android Google version.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Cook https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=cooks+map
What is going on in the mind of Scott Forstall?
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If only it had the data..or a way to pull in Foursquare locations.
Or pay Google.
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12506897/is-safari-on-ios...
Apple isn't known for releasing beta products so I think it's not a wonder they are noticing the consumers backlash.
I won't be upgrading to iOS6 until I have Google Maps.
A product that doesn't get better as people use it is dead.
Kudos for that.
It's not in Apple's DNA to apologize. Jobs would have said "We are building the most revolutionary mapping system ever created. This is an active endeavor and if it doesn't currently meet your needs we have at least 100 other mapping apps in the app store."
And then Jobs wouldn't have said anything else about the subject and moved on.
The reality distortion field is fading fast with Cook in charge. Jobs would have made everyone think they're part of a mapping revolution. Cook has allowed everyone to think they got ripped off.
1) http://www.apple.com/hotnews/openiphoneletter/
2) http://www.applegazette.com/dotmac/apple-issues-mobileme-apo...
To name a couple. Let's take a deep breath. It's going to be okay.
Here's the problem. Apple's technology has flaws. Jobs was great at convincing people that flaws were features. I believe his ability was fundamental to their success.
Cook admits flaws are flaws and this could slowly start to change people's perception of Apple's products.
And regarding Jobs.. get over it... he probably would have done a lot of things but he is sadly not among us anymore so stop guessing what he would have done or wouldn't have done.
Because in my experience the OSM data is quite good and even better than the Google Maps data. But then again I life in a populated area with probably a large number of OSM contributors.
And is Apple giving anything back to OSM? E.g. data or money?
[1] http://www.sfgate.com/technology/businessinsider/article/Mar...
It least they didn't pretend otherwise, like with mobileme.
Now add text-to-speech.
Now add lots and lots of hype, branding, smaller form factor, etc., etc.
This is door-to-door directions and text-to-speech. Perhaps greatly improved since the 90's, but certainly not new or cutting edge.
This is the type of stuff Apple, the world's wealthiest company, cannot get right. Because it's not their focus. They do not focus on something as simple as directions. That is just raw facts, nothing creative. No magic. Apple focusses on other things. Design. But if I just want to go from A to B and need directions, fast, I really don't give a shit about design. Apple cultists might. I don't.
Well, if you are an Apple cutltist, you won't be getting simple accurate directions the way the guy using Google, or Mapquest, or ..., is able to get them.
Google already did all of this. It's just that Apple wouldn't let them include those features on iOS. This is rather blatant lying.
10.2 Restrictions on the Types of Applications that You are Permitted to Build with the Maps API(s). Except as explicitly permitted in Section 8 (Licenses from Google to You) or the Maps APIs Documentation, you must not (nor may you permit anyone else to) do any of the following:
(a) No "Wrapping." You must not create or offer a "wrapper" for the Service, unless you obtain Google's written consent to do so. For example, you are not permitted to: (i) use or provide any part of the Service or Content (such as map imagery, geocoding, directions, places, or terrain data) in an API that you offer to others; or (ii) create a Maps API Implementation that reimplements or duplicates Google Maps/Google Earth. For clarity, you are not "re-implementing or duplicating" Google Maps/Google Earth if your Maps API Implementation provides substantial additional features or content beyond Google Maps/Google Earth, and those additional features or content constitute the primary defining characteristic of your Maps API Implementation.
(b) No Business, Residential, or Telephone Listings Services. You must not display any of the business listings Content provided by the Maps API(s) in any Maps API Implementation that has the primary purpose of making available business, residential address, or telephone directory listings.
(c) No Navigation, Autonomous Vehicle Control, or Enterprise Applications. You must not use the Service or Content with any products, systems, or applications for or in connection with any of the following:
(i) real time navigation or route guidance, including but not limited to turn-by-turn route guidance that is synchronized to the position of a user's sensor-enabled device.
(ii) any systems or functions for automatic or autonomous control of vehicle behavior; or
(iii) enterprise dispatch, fleet management, business asset tracking or similar applications. If you want to engage in enterprise dispatch, fleet management, business asset tracking, or similar applications, please contact the Google Maps API for Business sales team to obtain a Google enterprise license. (If you are offering a non-enterprise implementation, you may use the Google Maps API(s) to track assets such as cars, buses or other vehicles, as long as your tracking application is made available to the public without charge. For example, you may offer a free, public Maps API Implementation that displays real-time public transit or other transportation status information.)
Those features in Android's Google Maps only exist because they don't have to follow the TOS.
How the hell do you know that Google would have allowed them to use all of that for reasonable terms? You do not. You are just clueless.