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Comment by spondyl | Hacker News Reader

Hah! I had watched this just last night. I have a Fisher & Paykel Dishdrawer so this prompted me to check the instruction manual and sure enough, I had been putting Rinse Aid in the pre-wash area. I don't even really know what Rinse Aid is honestly but it's fun having some things be a black box. Turns out the correct spot is turning a knob, pulling it out and pouring it down a hole containing a glowing red light. I had assumed there was just some sort of circuitry down there and doing so would be a horrible idea. Thanks Technology Connections!

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It's a volatile surfactant. Thus, it allows water to drip off your dishes before drying, so you don't get spots, but also doesn't produce a residue of its own.

I wouldn’t use rinse aid. It’s not good for you - damages your gut and may contain dioxane byproducts. I also would avoid detergents with ethoxylated alcohols (AEs).

What to look for is any powder or powder-filled pod with a) no AEs and b) does contain amylase and protease , two food-eating enzymes that are often omitted for who knows why.

365 Whole Foods brand pods are my go-to

[Several citations needed]

Household usage levels are probably fine [1]. That being said, we don't use rinse aid and I don't see any issues with glasses. I can see how it could be a problem in areas with harder water.

[1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36464527/

Are you a chemist, an investor, a pro-additive experiments?

Why?

Why would you assume I am a chemist, an investor, and a pro-additive experiments? (I'm 2/3, but which 2!?)

I'm an educated citizen who likes to have some evidence-based sources to learn about surprising claims people make. Especially when their claims read like pseudoscientific babble that has little or no basis in reality.

The guy in the video disagrees with you. From his other video, 23 mins in,

> next, rinse aids. use them. this isn't a scam.

I'll trust the dishwasher expert until there's some proper citations.

You have to realize that every time you sip a glass or eat off a surface that's provided by a commercial entity, you're getting items that have come in contact with industrial appliances that dispense rinse aid.

I have a difficult time believing that something so ubiquitous is as harmful as you claim, but I'm open to being convinced.

"This isn't a scam" means that rinse aid works. It doesn't imply anything regarding its safety.

There is some research (see my other comment) hinting that industrial level use can be harmful (households dilution levels are probably fine).

Wait til you hear about the dangers of using industrial amounts of dihydrogen monoxide :p

…

I think this is the research that suggests possible damage - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36464527/

Do they make a powder?

We absolutely need rinse aid here, even with a water softener. But we make our own with ethanol and citric acid. For us works just as well as the pricey stuff and costs us…. A large bottom shelf bottle of vodka (sorry, don’t drink and don’t buy this enough to remember) and about $0.50 in citric acid will last me 6 months.

Yeah, I have very soft water. I tried using a liquid rinse aid when I switched from a name brand pod with a rinse aid to the cheap Kirkland pods. The rinse aid made things worse and I did end up with a residue on my glassware.

It’s cheap enough to try it and see if it helps but don’t feel obligated to use it if it doesn’t.

Say more! Are you just squirting lemon juice into the bottle? How much? How often are you refilling the rinse aid reservoir?

I ordered citric acid off of Amazon (it’s great at getting out hard water stains in bathrooms and toilets and helps keep my water softener going well (I add some to the salt tank), also can add some good kick to lemonade)

For every cup of vodka (40 or 60% can’t remember, but prolly 40. Though scientifically 60% would be better) I add 1 to 2 tsp of powdered citric acid. Takes a surprisingly long time to dissolve so you’ll get a quick workout shaking it. I’ve added blue food coloring before to make it more visible in the dispenser to see the level but it’s not necessary at all so I usually skip it.

I make it in a 1 liter bottle which will last a couple months. We have a Bosch dishwasher, refill it… every couple of weeks maybe? I’m not the only one filling it. We do 1-2 loads of dishes a day (4 kids who can’t ever seem to find the cup they JUST used. Probably a parenting problem)

I have no idea if that’s helpful. But I did just lookup a cost by fluid volume- I live in a state with high alcohol tax rates and my cost per fluid oz of my DIY rinse aid is around $0.19 (mostly from alcohol, per fluid oz of citric acid is less than one cent. ) for reference, the small bottle of Jet-dry is $0.58/flOz.

> damages your gut

what does that even mean?

Any citations here?

Edit: i see the linked pubmed in a child comment now. But it seems to be not in humans, so saying it "damages your gut" is not an appropriate conclusion.

There are other studies. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36464527/

You should read more than the article's title. Like how they were testing against "liquid-liquid interface cultures, organoids, and gut-on-a-chip" and not humans.

Reading the Conclusion is also helpful. Says nothing about damaging your gut.

There are rinse aid brands which undergo independent tests to ensure they don't contain problematic things but you can also pretty successfuly make your own with a combination of some food grade acid, alcohol and water.

Do you know of any dishwasher powder (not pod) that's both effective and less likely to cause gut issues?

I don't understand where you are getting "cause gut issues" from. Hopefully not some random person on the Internet spewing nonsense without any sources.

Not only is there an extremely small amount of rinse aid that is dispensed in the final rinse, but even less of it would be present once the dishes are dry. The paranoia over it theoretically affecting your gut lining in the amounts used as directed is hogwash.

Without rinse aid your dishes will never be even remotely dry unless you manually wipe them dry yourself.

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