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Comment by legitster | Hacker News Reader

The link you posted is broken.

But I can tell you with fair certainty that Amazon's high turnover rate is NOT happening in their engineering departments, though. It's happening in their retail or business departments.

I'm kind of horrified by the rise of anti-immigrant rhetoric in engineering circles online and how normalized it's becoming. (Especially troubling how much Indians in particular are drawing ire). Is it really that much different if Amazon brings in a foreign worker to Seattle vs someone from Mississippi? Immigration restrictions are arbitrary and unfair, and in my mind any carveouts for them are a good thing.

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> But I can tell you with fair certainty that Amazon's high turnover rate is NOT happening in their engineering departments, though.

Maybe you mean there hasn't been any change in their turnover recently, but the numbers (not to mention, the horror stories) I heard more than a decade ago from then-current and ex-AMZN folks were already pretty bad.

As an illustrative example, IIRC the average tenure is 21 months, which is just 3 months short of their first big RSU chunk (15%?) vesting. That is, people could not bear to stay another 3 months to get a big chunk of equity that they'd worked for the past 21 months.

If people recall that NY Times article about Amazon culture, I had already heard examples of everything in that article and more from people who had left.

> Immigration restrictions are arbitrary and unfair, and in my mind any carveouts for them are a good thing.

Given how many CS grads in US colleges are struggling to find a job these days, I disagree.

If there is demand beyond what local supply can provide, sure. That may have been the case 10 years ago, but it's not the case today.

> Is it really that much different if Amazon brings in a foreign worker to Seattle vs someone from Mississippi?

in what way do you mean different? i would say it is wildly different

If you're worried about from poorer areas coming in and taking our jobs, how much distinction is there really whether they come from a poorer state or a poorer country?

America has free and open trade within its borders. Nobody seems to mind that there are no visa restrictions on someone from Mississippi taking a job in California.

The distinction we make between a foreigner coming to take a job and a domestic worker taking a job is (with some particular exceptions) is largely a mental construct.

The distinction is that in America, we are obligated to take care of Americans.

If people immigrate to America, the arrangement should be mutually beneficial.

We are not, and should not be, the self-appointed saviors of the world.

> We are not [...] saviors of the world.

This is definitely true. You are getting cheap educated labor, boosting your country's economy and crippling competition. Self interest, not savior behavior.

Now, that's irrelevant to the argument you are replying, that shows the holes in the wage depression argument.

hiring a domestic worker immediately reduces social burden on the rest of the country who should be supporting the domestic worker if they can't find work

hiring a foreign worker does not immediately reduce social burden on the country with the job

ignoring the absurdness of this argument, it's actually a better deal for some workers to stay in poorer areas of the US because there are now similar job opportunities nationwide while those areas have a lower cost of living. can't find the study rn bc i'm busy but it came out a few years ago i think. used to be a worker from the south would move to NYC and it would drastically change their financial situation, but now it's not the case anymore.

> I'm kind of horrified by the rise of anti-immigrant rhetoric in engineering circles online and how normalized it's becoming

Agree, and it came on pretty suddenly as well, which is particularly horrifying. To me it shows how fragile civility and safety is. I see this type of sentiment showing up in the comment sections of YouTube videos on tech or financial topics recently. I think the reality is when people feel their own way of life and chance at becoming rich is at risk, they will search for whatever external risk they can eliminate. And increased competition (from foreign talent) is one such risk.

If it were just that, it would be one thing. But alongside the protectionism, I am seeing a lot of outright racist comments accompanying this backlash against immigrant labor. Like comments that play up stereotypes or worse. As a mild example, I see people saying things like “They can’t fix their own country so they’re coming to ruin ours” or “We don’t need more call center scammers”.

The links I have added above all show that Engineers are in fact impacted by this.

???

The links you have shared are relating to the Engadget leaks - which is specifically about turnover among warehouse workers.

Amazon is not using H1B workers to fill these positions.

You must be confused.

If you look again you'll find another link to the H-1B data, And there are many types of engineering titles listed there.

Link updated.

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