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Comment by jrnng | Hacker News Reader

> Nobody is bringing a sawzall into the gym while it's open.

They are bringing in bolt cutters to locker rooms. The locker metal loop that the lock threads through is easier to cut than the lock. I've first hand seen lockers destroyed to remove the lock. Not while the break in is happening but it's easy piece the crime scene back together to understand their tools.

Manual bolt cutters are almost silent except for the "thunk" when it breaks the metal, and there are even battery operated bolt cutters that are quick and compact.

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> I've first hand seen lockers destroyed to remove the lock.

A neighbor secured his expensive bike with a hefty lock and chain around a tree in our courtyard. Bad guys brought a saw. I still miss that tree.

I'm convinced there is basically no foolproof way to secure a bicycle in public.

I've seen everything from braided steel being cut clean to combination bike locks getting picked (by the attacker actually figuring out the correct combination, not just brute-forcing it apart or wangjangling a paperclip).

They just need to steal 1 good bicycle to more than pay off the cost of their equipment. One stolen bicycle could feed a family for a week. In some place like the Bay Area where $1000 bicycles abound, the economics are just too appealing.

From what I've heard, the way to go about it is to not have a very nice bike, make it identifiable and loud (eg ripped up neon tape and graffiti), and then use both a chain lock as well as a U lock that're both thick enough. Also perhaps throw on extra locks to make other bikes look attractive.

Of course none of these work if the thief is part of a ring that is targeting your bike because it's high value.

> use both a chain lock as well as a U lock that're both thick enough

No, thickness is an irrelevant property to an angle grinder. You're adding something like a second of grinding per kg of material. Makes no sense. The trick is to use grinder-resistant locks. Those extend grinding time to minutes.

Or a tough chain slack enough that it’s hard to press the grinder against.

Even those are variable in quality. Do you have a lock that takes 2 grinding discs to cut through or one that takes 26 grinding discs to cut through?

https://thebestbikelock.com/security/angle-grinder-proof-bik...

I think there might be a common myth that having a tatty looking bike means it won’t get stolen.

Unfortunately I don’t think a lot of bike thefts are opportunistic and the value of the bike isn’t the motivating factor.

I think the most stolen cars are Hyundais and Toyotas (and maybe F-150s, these days).

They are often stolen for parts.

I don’t think bikes are stolen for parts, but commodity bikes are probably a big target.

Surely Hyundais (in the US at least) top the list because of how easy they've been historically to steal?

Sorry there’s a (hopefully) obvious typo in what I wrote.

I 100% agree with you, most bike thefts are opportunistic.

I know that high end bikes do get stripped for parts but I think that’s got to be mostly after they are taken and pretty rare.

There’s been some raids in London where they found scrapyards full of stolen bikes. Most are still whole. Even those stolen to order.

I don't doubt that a bad looking bike isn't the biggest deterent. But it's the combination of factors that's practically helpful.

A tatty bike with 2 (or even 3!) high quality locks is a much lower target than a half decent looking bike with just a single cheap lock.

The more opportunistic the thief, the better your chances of not getting your bike stolen if you have 2 more locks than everyone around you. Heck, I'd argue, due to their unusual nature of being (not) used as a lock, a dozen zip ties might be more effective than a 3rd of 4th lock, simply because no thief is expecting to encounter it. They want a quick getaway, spending 20 seconds per tie * 10 ties is likely much longer than what it's worth for them, especially if your bike isn't that nice.

Sure there is, but you need to understand the variables involved. How expensive is the bike, how safe is he area, how long are you leaving it there for?

At its worst, people get their fancy bikes robbed as they're riding them in big cities like London; at its best, nobody in small villages locks their bikes because they all know each other.

In terms of locks, general advice is to get an angle-grinder resistant U-lock and lock it through the rear frame triangle+wheel+some solid object.

Since a U-lock like that is impossible to defeat with anything that's not a power tool, and you'd need to spend several minutes grinding through it [0] [1], most thieves will not bother. If they cut through whatever the bike is locked to, they still have a bike that's locked to itself.

For extra security you may want to do the same with the front wheel using something like a chain lock. Locking the saddle is also a good idea. Locks with alarms that notify you could be a decent idea too. And/or just get bike insurance.

[0]: https://youtu.be/v_0DB3gBM3Y?t=475

[1]: https://youtu.be/LD32NMCGDF0?t=2440

I have a Brompton and no bike lock for this reason. When I’m on my Brompton it goes where I go.

Actually I do have a “cafe lock”. Its purpose is just to slow someone down enough for me to catch them on foot. I’ve once successfully used the strap on my helmet for the same purpose in Barcelona too.

The illusion of security is really all you have.

In Japan they have bike theft sorted with mandatory registration with the local police force. A sticker on the bike and a corresponding bit of paper in the wallet provides proof of ownership, which may be requested by police at any time.

This costs money to administer but it means that nobody in Japan needs to overly worry about their bicycle being stolen. Huge locks are not needed, nor is GPS tracking or third party registration schemes.

The idea of getting a 'hack bike' that looks undesirable is often touted as a solution to cycle theft in the West. However, thieves just want money, so the 'hack bike' that can be easily sold trumps the hard-to-sell expensive bike if money is needed now, for tonight's high. More money can be tomorrow's problem.

There is a new generation of bike locks which have the shackle wrapped in a composite coating that mostly destroys angle grinder cutting discs and similar cutting tools. This is likely the best current outdoor bike locking approach as it requires thieves to have either 1) lots of spare discs or 2) a torch or 3) picking skills, and very few thieves have any of those.

My school had bolt cutter just sitting in the locker rooms because kids forgot their combinations.

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