Hacker News Reader

Comment by dangus | Hacker News Reader

> This "if you're not for us you're against us" is a very broken way of thinking.

This is the paradox of tolerance is invoked.

The people in the present administration have been blowing white supremacist and pro-violence dog whistles for over a decade now.

If you are “with that” then yes, you are against us.

This is not to say that I am intending to be hostile and unwelcoming to those who have been deceived by this regime. Germany had to go through the deprogramming process at the end of World War II. They didn’t just throw every single ordinary person who ever supported the Nazi party in jail or socially shun them for life, they went through a healing process.

View on HN

> The people in the present administration have been blowing white supremacist and pro-violence dog whistles for over a decade now.

I think this is in itself a huge problem. You've been told this, repeatedly, for 10 years, which explains why so much of the political violence (and celebration thereof) is on the left in the US. Why do you still believe dogwhistles to be a bigger problem than actual violence?

I haven’t been told this, I have witnessed it as a primary source. I watched Trump tell cops that they should rough up suspects. I watched Trump tell the January 6 crowd that they need to fight like hell or they’ll lose this country. I watched Trumpers erect gallows for Mike Pence. I watched Trump tell the Proud Boys to stand back and stand by like they were his personal goon squad. I watched Trump say that second amendment people could help stop his opposition.

This “violence on the left” that you speak of, I haven’t personally seen a whole lot of it.

No Kings was the largest protest in American history and not a single person was arrested for any protest infraction in New York City. The NYPD publicly announced it.

How many people wearing Joe Biden hats breached the capitol? Is there any left-wing violence in the past few decades of America that you would call more extreme than breaking into the capitol building?

"so much of the political violence (and celebration thereof) is on the left in the US"

Biiiiiiiig citation needed. By every available metric, right-wing terror attacks dominate the political violence numbers in the US. I don't know what fantasy world you've been living in, but frankly it sounds pretty sweet to me.

And mass violence is a worse problem than targeted violence. Whether or not you think they deserved it, the notable cases of left-wing violence in the last year have been individual targets. When the right commits violence, they roll up to a synagogue and gun down everyone inside. Or a gay nightclub. Or they slam a couple planes into buildings (yeah, if you're going to lump the left together, then you can't complain when the right gets lumped together).

To paraphrase: ``` Biiiiiiiig citation needed. By every available metric, left-wing terror attacks dominate the political violence numbers in the US. I don't know what fantasy world you've been living in, but frankly it sounds pretty sweet to me.

And mass violence is a worse problem than targeted violence. Whether or not you think they deserved it, the notable cases of right-wing violence in the last year have been individual targets. When the left commits violence, they roll up to a synagogue and gun down everyone inside. Or a gay nightclub. Or they slam a couple planes into buildings (yeah, if you're going to lump the right together, then you can't complain when the left gets lumped together). ```

Both he and you are empty talkers who simply insult the other side without any basis.

If the talibans are the left and progressive, I don’t know what to tell you. You’re too far gone

But do you care that the gay nightclub in Florida was shot up by a self hating gay / bi Muslim? Well, you don't. Because it doesn't fit your view.

You should check what constitutes the "right-wing terror attacks". You will be surprised to know that they include attacks made by Islamic radicals.

The analyses I saw separated right wing, left wing, and Islamist.

That doesn’t surprise me at all. Islamic radicals aren’t that different in belief system from a lot of Christian nationalists.

We have all seen family portraits where people pose with American flags, bibles, and guns.

American Christians talk about how the woman/wife is subservient to the husband, how women should stay at home and forego a career and perform traditional roles at home. Many denounce and try to restrict contraceptive access. Many insist that women should/should not dress a certain way.

American Christian talk about how being gay is a sin and how America is a Christian country, not a secular democracy, how we need to have the Ten Commandments in school and in government buildings.

American Christians even grow beards, wear tactical/military-style gear, and drive pickup trucks just like Islamic radicals! (Okay that last one is a a half-joke but it’s kind of funny how the similarities bleed into the aesthetic).

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck…

It's the Left that: - is against Israel - supports Hamas - is against neocons and meddling in the Middle-East - is anti-free speech - is fanatically religious in their beliefs that have no base in reality and are cheering on the death (professional cancelling or real) of the people who dare to disagree with their delusion - are antiscience (antibiology, for one) - are for mutilation of children

The list can be continued.

My point is that classifying Islamists as right-wing is an attempt to gaslight people, to lie to them, is purposefully misleading. Context and public perception matter.

Exactly this. I am a minority and sinking acceptance of us is due to the behavior of liberals making the rest of us look entitled and truth-averse.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com