Shocked by San Francisco, on my very first day | Hacker News Reader

Shocked by San Francisco, on my very first day

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27 pointsyohann30533 comments

I understand the idea, but I still don't think this is the right way to go about it.... There are many well organized and already established charities that help out the homeless. If you feel the need to help less fortunate people out, I believe it would be better to donate to one of these charities. It also helps circumvent the potential for the beggar to go use it for alcohol/drugs/unnecessary purchases and it makes sure that only the people that truly are trying to get help out of their situation get the money....

Edit: Playing devil's advocate here, but couldn't this be a way for some "pranksters" to harass the homeless easily as well? I certainly don't have enough faith in our fellow humans to expect this never to happen, especially since homeless already deal with enough assaults... Between 1999-2010, 312 homeless people were reported dead from these assaults and over 800 injured [1].

[1]http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/hatecrimes.html

I'm always curious when otherwise intelligent people think that homeless people shouldn't have alcohol. I can only think of several reasons why a person thinks the homeless shouldn’t have it:

A) They enjoy alcohol, but feel that someone without a home doesn't deserve to enjoy it. B) They don't drink alcohol which they believe is the reason they are not homeless. C) They think that if that person stops drinking, they will end up with a job quickly and get their life back together.

Only in rare cases is C going to work out and those cases it will probably have nothing to do with whether you decide alcohol is right for them.

If you want to help homeless people, give them some money, not some old, half eaten sandwich. Every time I’ve watched a friend try to give away some old food, they are always turned down by homeless people.

I could be off here, but overtime I have got the sense that the homeless people I see every day are not feeling bad for themselves at all. They view themselves as hustlers, not saving, but just getting by everyday by raising a few dollars here, a few dollars there etc. I view them as capitalists who are making a choice every day to live the way they do.

It might be because some homeless people are alcoholics and it's not really a particularly nice thing to encourage someone else's addiction/disease.

Because I consider alcohol something that is an unnecessary expense and when you are spending money on alcohol when you are homeless, I can't help but think that there are more important things that you could be spending that same money on. Also if I give money to a homeless person, I personally don't want my money going to drugs/alcohol because that is doing nothing to help the homeless person out. I'd rather it go to food or even something like a gym membership for a month so that they can shower and get cleaned up to maybe get a job. That's my view anyway.

This is an interesting discussion. So what's the goal? Is the goal making the homeless person happy/ier? Are you sure that by not allowing that person to have alcohol, or by making him get a job, he's going to be happy/ier? If being happy is not the goal, then what is it? And how do you achieve it?

I agree with this. I can't speak for SF specifically, but a lot of places with high homeless populations have organizations, systems, and resources to help those in need. From my understanding, one of the problems is people outside of the organizations unintentionally undermining the organizations by giving food, handouts, etc. When people receive this sort of help, they don't see a need to go to these organizations that help identify and ideally fix the root issue.

Fixing the homeless problem is complicated. I don't think that gives you an excuse to do nothing though. I think the app is interesting, and I think could could come from it. I think the effort is better spent focusing on more permanent solutions. Maybe try joining up with a homeless organization and pitching them the idea.

I'm a big proponent of organizations and systems. They're probably the most efficient mechanism but they don't address all of the issues. Sometimes a homeless person doesn't want/need food or shelter, they just want someone passing by to notice them and take a few minutes to chat.

I'm of the mind that if you feel led to do something then you should follow your gut.

I'm of two minds about this. On the one hand you're right that a lot of people need the sort of organized and consistent long-term help that ad-hoc leftovers and the odd blanket won't provide.

On the other hand my limited experience with organized charity is that the biggest unmet need is agency over their own lives, something productive to do, and contact with mainstream society. If this project developed into something that would allow more people to feel OK having casual 1-on-1 contact with people at the margins of society it could have the potential to do a lot of good.

I see your point, and I'd like to make a mixed argument. As for the App in itself, it might be a a good idea for more urgent needs of the homeless, I say like if someone is in need of medicine quickly, a charity or organization might be too slow, as in, more Bureaucratic than necessary to help the homeless person, some more urgent needs might be quenched by the community of people who would like to help. However, many years ago, when I was younger and wanted to help, I got involved with a group who would go out at night and give soup to the homeless, I remember my first day, there was some commotion going on with a woman who did not wanted to come and get her soup, from what I've been told she was already a friend of the group, when they went to talk to her, then they found out some teenage kids had come and threw fire on her hair, luckly it did not burn her face, but still, an App like that might cause some serious harm if left on the hands of those who would rather have homeless people disappear.

Please understand that San Francisco has some of the most extensive programs for the homeless/poor in the country. There are homeless prenatal services, clinics, shelters, food programs, healthcare, job training programs, low income housing, mail services, free blankets, clothing, etc. Heck, there is a program to give puppies from animal control to panhandlers and pay them a stipend for watching them.

A good number of panhandlers aren't homeless. Many suffer from mental illness and California hasn't done forced mental treatment since Reagan. A large minority are addicted to drugs or alcohol.

Very few are actually hungry (in SF, food stamps come on a debit card that can be used not only at grocery stores, but at many restaurants and even farmer's markets). On top of that the San Francisco Food Bank distributes 100,000 meals a day worth of food.

What I'm trying to get at here is that even with all this stuff, the problem basically isn't going away. It is really complicated and giving someone your leftover food might make you feel better, but I doubt it'll solve the underlying problem.

The city, in my opinion, does provide above average (compared to other US cities) care to homeless via many city and non-profit programs. Part of how they fund those programs is a problem. The problem is that the non-profits are not subject to sunshine laws so that we may not know how effective those monies have been.

For example, over the years the city in its wisdom has seen it fit to divert over 600million from the Hetch Hetchy system into the general fund (which is where police, parks and non-profits can apply for funding). so now the city is asking for a prop to raise 3.6 billion to fix the Hetch Hetchy water system --which they'd been neglecting.

In any event, the homeless and mental illness problem cannot be a city or state issue. It needs to become a national issue so that the problem can be addressed nationally but delivered locally. Otherwise people with these issues are attracted by places which treat them nicely (and thus over tax the locality) while migrating away from places which provide little treatment --i.e the 'nice' places get penalized for trying to be nice.

http://www.sfgate.com/green/article/A-CHRONICLE-SPECIAL-REPO... http://www.sfbg.com/39/23/cover_foi_nonprofits.html

I couldn't help but chuckle a bit after reading this blog post. I am not sure if I should be cheerful about this app concept or hang my head in shame.

>> Find/geo-locate the closest beggar near you

How? Homeless people are not static points-of-interest and to even consider them like that is a bit distasteful.

>> Know how safe it is to walk close to that beggar.

Again, how? People adding reviews for an individual homeless person?

Billy on 6th Avenue => 4 stars

Thankfulness: 3 Stars (Only said thanks once when I gave him 20 dollars.

Cleanliness: 5 Stars (Hair was still wet from his recent shower at a gym)

Disability/Reason for Homelessness: 4 Stars (Appears to have a peg leg, but I couldn't confirm

Safe to Approach: 4 Stars (Appeared harmless, walked slowly, but wore big overcoat so he could've been hiding a knife)

Recommend to other donors: Yes!

There's usually groups who go to the homeless to offer food, medicine and clothing, they probably have the ins and outs of finding the homeless on their city.

IMHO, the groups who to that, are doing a very noble thing. But dipping this in the silicon valley startup sauce is quite insulting to the homeless individual. What OP should be doing is working hard and contributing to these groups/organizations who know the best way to render help and assistance. Making this into a treasure hunt does not make sense to me. Why would you want a random homeless already-struggling down-on-his-luck guy be disturbed by every smartphone wielding person? Peace and solace must mean something, right?

Looks like it's time for a mashup with this: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/13/technology/homeless-as-wi-...

First off, a close friend of mine did this a few years back. He called it hoboreview.com. He ended up shutting it down to to lack of public interest.

Secondly, the title of this post is "shocked by San Francisco" and yet the article fails to explain what was so shocking. Was it the fact that the hobo gave you a weird look? Or that there were hobos at all? I can't imagine Miami being a whole lot different.

And finally, he needs our help with what? Seems to me he's so excited about starting some sort of online collaboration / movement that he forgot to take the time to figure out what the movement actually is.

Plus, the dude is in San Francisco for a week and decides to spend his time at an ING Coffee shop? That's in poor taste.

An application targeting a vulnerable demographic, that encourages people to put other people's personal information online, and offers a platform that is ripe for misuse and abuse.

What could possibly go wrong?

The guy noticed a problem and instead of being pessimistic, he decided to do something about it and affect change. Whether you agree with him or not, you should recognize that he is only trying to help. Instead of being snarky and sarcastic, perhaps you could contribute to the conversation.

Consider the sarcasm as my playful contribution, as we both know there is nothing to contribute here because the goal is unrealistic.

The idea that homeless people, a demographic known for crime and drug abuse, can be tracked reliably by volunteers so that other people can give them food is laughable.

Not to mention if such a system did exist, it would be exploited by the people who would benefit by it, bored kids, possibly law enforcement, etc. etc.

I suspect SF is far more progressive but in my city the police would use this to round-up and arrest them.

I am not exaggerating, it's illegal to feed the homeless in my city.

This is what we've become.

Which country are you in?

What were we before? Elves living in blissful harmony?

am i the only one that finds this app idea a little... distasteful?

If it can help, no.

I certainly do see your point though.

Your piece makes a lot of assumptions.

Instead of writing the grossly and insensitively named "beggarmap" I'd like to suggest you find a charity that needs volunteers and work with them for three days.

Feed the homeless for three days, get to know them, then maybe you can decide what their needs are and what the best way to meet them is.

Am I the only one who laughed at this? Everyone else in the comments so far seem to think its serious.

I'd like to point out that the beggar I fed yesterday was very excited to get some food. If I can repeat this every day, then the app is priceless.

If you do it every day, you should totally get a badge in the app. People love badges.

Ten straight days and get a GOLD badge!

I assumed it was a joke throughout, but I'm like that.

I don't see how you were shocked.

I've lived in San Francisco for 20 years. You might be interested in knowing where your General Tso's will end up:

When work crews pulled open a broken BART escalator at San Francisco's Civic Center Station last month, they found so much human excrement in its works they had to call a hazardous-materials team.

While the sheer volume of human waste was surprising, its presence was not. Once the stations close, the bottom of BART station stairwells in downtown San Francisco are often a prime location for homeless people to camp for the night or find a private place to relieve themselves.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Human-waste-shuts-down...

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