Windows 10 Deadline Boosts Mac Sales
macrumors.com
macrumors.com
You can’t compare percentages like this when they don’t have the same denominator.
The findings they are discussing are from Counterpoint Research:
> According to Counterpoint, Apple's global Mac shipments grew 14.9% year-over-year in the third quarter of 2025, supported by demand for new MacBook models and rising enterprise adoption of Apple hardware.
Spot on the +17% in lenovo shipments, but shouldn't we also care about the huge number of computers they're replacing - just because they're incapable of running Windows 11?
To be fair this is _also_ a massive problem on Windows too, because of Windows Modern Standby encouraging laptop makers to replace ol' reliable S3 sleep with the terribly broken modern standby stuff. Macbooks and certain Framework models are the only laptops left with reliable sleep.
Old video but nothing's really improved since: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHKKcd3sx2c
At this point I expect sleep to work better on Linux than Windows machines.
https://www.accio.com/business/operating-system-market-share...
Same with the “Free Software” crowd - those 20-30 year olds are now 50-60.
Aging demographics that broadly failed to attract any interest from the next generation. Honestly though, why join? There’s nothing inherently attractive about either community. Hang out with toxic gamers on Discord and join a team, or hang out with toxic old nerds still on IRC for ideological purity. I know which one wins. Even professionally, I’d rather join a model train community.
Speaking as one of those 40-50, I firmly believe once our generation is gone all those ideals will be gone as well.
Also everyone that thinks Valve will stay the Linux white knight after current management is gone, is in for a surprise, who knows what they will do with their assets.
If I didn’t want that, I wouldn’t be on windows at all.
The issue I have with Linux is that it’s 2025 and every single time I’ve created a Linux system in the past ten years, I have some sort of issue that I spend too much of my time figuring out. I am married, have three school age children, and have hobbies and I volunteer regularly. One of those hobbies is not “figuring out how to make Linux work.”
The downside of open source is you have to have the time to fix it yourself, and that lack of time is what keeps me from pursuing Linux, even though I am absolutely furious at the crap Microsoft is pulling lately, from shutting off ability to create a local account, to forcing OneDrive, to throwing Ads onto the desktop, to the telemetry and marketing spyware that is now standard on Windows 11.
That said, if you're having to fix your system constantly then something is off, as many distros have become incredibly stable. Of course I don't know your circumstances so can't say anything specific.
This comment literally asks him to go check to see if his games work with Linux, and that he needs specific hardware for that compatibility to be meaningfully successful. The alternative is he just uses Windows and plays his games. It's exactly the type of "extra steps" that he wants to avoid.
I use Linux systems daily, and every now and then I'll go FOSS-zealot enough to go rip my Thinkpad back out of the closet and port everything over. Then, I'm no longer interoperable with any part of society that isn't involved in a fringe movement of the Linux laptop, and then go back, somewhat disappointingly, to my MacBook Pro.
Last time I tried a dual boot UEFI system with windows and Linux on separate drives, I spent three weeks trawling message boards for half answers from DenverCoder9 only to give up.
That is a solid option but alas voting with your wallet can be difficult (social reasons etc.) The only thing that needs Windows for me is Valorant. Everything else runs on bazite.
> UEFI system with windows and Linux
That is weird. Were you trying to have some selection with grub?
Just having two drives and selecting a boot device in the Bios/Uefi of the MB has worked stable for at least four years with this configuration. Make your default Linux or Windows and only use the MB for one-time boots of the other one.
Should have known better.
Better than what, modifying your UEFI to forcibly recognize your GPT? Once you reach that point you should know that you're heading towards paperweight territory.
Just because we complain doesn't mean we are Linux newbies.
Many of us do use Linux at work, have been there since early days, myself kernel 1.0.9, do have multiple UNIX variants experience, what we lack is the willingness to keep doing the same over and over again on our free time.
Yet, a single complaint and there comes the same answer as back in the Usenet days.
Go look at the reviews of the Xbox handhelds - every single one always mentions how bad the OS is. Windows is no longer a selling point outside the hyper-obsessive purist niche that is waning with the proliferation of hardware-based cheats. Gaming-based hardware is getting docked points for not running Linux as a standard, Windows 11 is a liability.
Complain until the cows come home, really. It just makes you look that much dumber next to the 8-year-olds installing and playing Metroidvanias on their Steam Deck.
I’d also mention Windows isn’t a panacea. I’ve fiddled with driver upgrades and downgrades for various games over the years on Windows.
Compared to the hours and hours of battling Windows to get it to a usable state. Drivers, removing bloat, hunting for exes on the internet, dealing with low quality commercial software, etc. Then you get to do it all over again when a major update drops.
Performance is better on Linux too, I noticed a good 10-20% FPS uplift in some games. Found a random CPU review showing everything is slower under Windows. https://www.phoronix.com/review/windows-linux-amd-9950x-9950...
When windows has a problem, I am confident there will be a driver fix and windows/the manufacturer will update the driver and I download an update and I’m fixed, and I’m confident in this for a few reasons:
1. Microsoft spends a lot of time and money on driver compatibility.
2. Manufacturers are incentivized to make sure their stuff works on windows.
3. The time and money has been spent for ease-of-updates and on customer service (having notices and communications that there is a problem and it will be resolved).
When this has happened to me on an Ubuntu or Debian based system, it’s typically been surfaced through a GitHub or random forum post, with consulted instructions to fix, if there is a fix. When the instructions don’t work, I need to spend more of my time figuring out why. And this happens for even mainstream hardware.
I’ve never had trouble free windows, but the time to get the problem resolved is a lot less and generally requires little to no time on my part, which given my state in life, is what I want.
Did you even look before you threw out a lazy negative post?
Do you have more specific needs where the normal way doesn't work? I'm no music producer, so there's lots of stuff I probably don't even know about, would love to hear your thoughts. :)
Could you share the config somehow so I could try it out? Last time I tried to get it to work I couldn't get it to recognize my audio interface (USB class compliant, Steinberg UR44), and the UI was very glitchy.
I don't think I have any special needs compared to others, do fairly basic things. Which version is it that you've tried it with? Tried v11 years ago I think, and v12 when it was just released, but not since then.
I’ve already messed around with a Fedora dual-boot, but now I’m fully planning to go 100% Linux once I get around to building a new computer.
Luckily I don’t really play multiplayer games so I don’t need to worry about the anti cheat issue.
The term might come up in Linux distro installers but the ones I have used recently all handle it fine (Arch, Debian, Fedora). Secure boot is even supported without hassle by all the major distributions. Once Linux is installed the user definitely doesn't need to care about the pre-OS boot firmware.
It’s still in really bad shape, from a consumer perspective.
On Windows 11 I had to figure out that I needed hop on another computer to search, download and copy via USB some motherboard and wifi drivers before I could even access the Internet. A number of things in the system remain rather quirky and not entirely reliable, including video playback of all kinds.
If I was setting up a PC for say my dad tomorrow, I'm finally at the point where I'd rather give him Linux than Windows.
Did they fix full screen video playback?
In the end, Valve had to come up with Proton.
Signed ex-FOSS zealot.
Didn't we have way more layoffs last year? AI chase hardware is rolling out. Seems like a lot of factors could be involved.
If that was true, the various computer companies wouldn't spend billions on advertising to C-suite types, and fleets of salespeople to woo them.
Executives since the dawn of buying computers
Clearly you weren't there, or you'd know executives paid extra for the IBM brand because "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM."
Ah, they also only had 8 GB, dual cores.
I also would have much preferred to stay on 10 (for various reasons) but my work VPN is locking out anyone using it (even though MS just extended the support deadline for another year).
I ended up with an M4 MacBook Air and couldn't be happier.
Pretty annoying coz Linux is non-negotiable for me. I've just bought a laptop and it feels like I'm getting much worse value for money than I would with a Mac.
If you really need something cheap... Seems you are basically just screwed at this point, unless you are able to use Linux. Admittedly, I installed Ubuntu for my 70 year old mother a few months back and I haven't had a single support request so far. She's on a 2013 MacBook Air.
Finally got an e14 g6 AMD.... It's not supported by lenovo for Linux but everything got Auto detected and worked except fingerprint
The bummer: suspend to ram is terribly broken and for a laptop that's a deal breaker
Yeah I'm aware of framework and system 76... They aren't here. The pricier lenovo options exist but at that point is just go with a mac
One thing that's driving me crazy:
So for example you have 5 virtual desktops on Mac, and you use a keyboard shortcut to move left and right. So, if you start from the 1st and go to the 3rd and then immediately try to go back to the 2nd (1->3->2), animations need to complete on the 3rd until you can change direction. Doesn't happen if you start from the 2nd and go to the 4th then change direction to move to the 3rd(2->4->3). Same when beginning from the 5th to the 3rd then back to 4th (5->3->4). Doesn't happen with 4->2->3. Also, the windows which are visible on all desktops are shown until the animation is complete then the last focused windows on that desktop will be shown. And even with reduced motion, some fade animation is still there. Infuriating stuff for otherwise a magical experience.
The result? If you switch to an app to close it and use the Cmd + Q to quit it, but if you didn’t wait for the animations to finish, then you just quit the app you came from.
I think this bug was introduced like 2-3 years ago.
The easiest workaround that come to mind is to not use 5 virtual desktops
I finally gave in and contacted Apple support which is not an option during beta, and after a bit of back and forth and getting nowhere they were going to set me up with a specialist call; I asked to schedule it in 30 mins. I decided to do a last ditch effort to see if anyone was out there having the problem, and lo and behold the solution is Spotlight needs to index Documents which I had toggled off because I normally don't want to see those. Tahoe has so many signs of rushed engineering and lack or attention to detail; at least have some state machine notification thing between toggling Documents / Clipboard Search to inform the user they need both. But it is a heaps handy feature now that it is working.
Now with Windows 10 going away, they are picking up the stragglers.
Made my life easier.
You're framing this completely wrong. I have a gaming PC that runs Elden Ring, but it lacks TPM 2.0, Secure Boot, and the right generation of CPU from Intel or AMD. So Windows 11 literally cannot be legitimately installed. And now, Windows 10 is being purposely left with security holes. Microsoft is dictating that an Elden Ring‑capable gaming PC belongs in a landfill. Does that not sound absolutely ludicrous to you? Microsoft is free to obliterate its compatibility and shun its customer base if it wants to. That's its right. But whoever has convinced you that TPM 2.0 is so important that millions of gaming PCs should be turned into zombie‑virus‑infested abandonware—sorry, I just do not sympathize. The fact that there’s a third‑party hack to flip the bit that requires TPM 2.0 just proves that Microsoft could fix this situation with no effort whatsoever.
Why? Old Mac hardware are also powerful enough to run Apple's latest OS, yet they won't bother backporting it. You have to throw away your Intel Macs.
Same for ChromeOS hardware.
All the newest Mac hardware that came out in 2018 still gets security updates to this day.
But there's plenty of brand-new Windows hardware that came out in 2021, which now must be thrown away because it didn't qualify for a future operating system they had planned.
So we can gripe about it for the next three years before "what about Apple" becomes totally valid. Still feels messed up that the global monopoly holder for PCs decided e-wasting a billion of them would fly under the radar. Hopefully most people realize they can download a little bit flip hack to undo Microsofts check.
Yeah but that's because Apple also made the HW and sold it to you directly so they're responsible for both SW and HW. Microsoft did not make or sell you the HW in most cases, they sold you an OS (unless you bought a prebuilt with an Windows OEM license, in which case Dell/Lenovo/etc is responsible).
I'm not excusing Microsoft's behavior, I'm just saying why they're not comparable to the way Apple does it.
>But there's plenty of brand-new Windows hardware that came out in 2021
Like which?
For example, I have a pretty good gaming PC that plays Grand Theft Auto V at 4K and Elden Ring on low settings.
It no longer gets security updates. Microsoft has made the arbitrary policy that this hardware is too old simply because it doesn't have TPM 2.0 Secure Boot, and a certain generation of Intel or AMD CPU. They have decided it should go to a landfill.
Of course, I am more skilled than the average person, so I easily installed a hack to bypass these hardware requirements and get Windows 11 installed anyway. So I get security updates. But it's a matter of principle that I shouldn't have to use a hack.
Also, a lot of these comments are misunderstanding the question. Recall, Copilot, and ads are not the reason most of these people are opting for Mac instead of Windows 11. It's because they cannot install it legitimately at all. Microsoft said you have to buy new hardware, so they're buying new hardware.
There's stuff I don't like about Windows 11, but this feels kinda overblown. The hardware requirements are satisfied by almost anything from the last 10 years, which is still a decently generous support window. TPM 2.0 is probably worth requiring, not unlike the 64-bit migration back in the day.
As far as I can tell, Windows barely leverages the new features in TPM 2 for consumer versions and the code for TPM 1.2 still seems to be there. The intruction set also didn't meaningfully change, unless we're talking 2010 era chips.
I'm not using Windows on that desktop anymore so I don't feel too bad about it, but I can easily give my PC to a relative if I get a new one and they'd be able to keep using it for five or six years when it comes to performance. The only real obstacle is software support.
Computers older than 10 years includes the vast majority of computers ever built. It's an insane requirement and it's not one that other OS share.
And the solution isn't hard work for Microsoft, the risk is mine to take if I don't want to upgrade for better secure boot.
Anyway, I migrated to linux for my gaming PC, the last Windows PC I had, and it's going really well. Good riddance.
Bad example. Windows 10 computers continue to work just fine. They aren't going to stop turning on
Windows 10 LTSC IoT.
Here's the info I skimmed
"Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC is designed for devices that need to run a single task consistently and securely for many years, with minimal changes. Examples include ATMs, medical devices, point-of-sale terminals, and industrial control systems. This Long-Term Servicing Channel (LTSC) version intentionally omits modern features and frequent updates to ensure a highly stable, unchanging operating system."
"The IoT version is sold exclusively through authorized Microsoft partners and has a different licensing model. It is not for internal use on general-purpose PCs and purchasing it from third-party resellers is likely to involve an illegitimate or stolen key."
"Microsoft does not officially support or recommend a transition from Windows Home or Pro to a Windows IoT Enterprise LTSC version for regular users. "
"Some game anti-cheat software has been known to have issues with LTSC versions of Windows, leading to potential game compatibility or stability problems. Dependency on the Xbox app: Games distributed via the Xbox app or Game Pass would be inaccessible. Many newer games also rely on components from the Xbox app for proper functionality, potentially leaving you locked out of a title even if you owned it on a different platform."
2. Microsoft recommendations serve Microsoft's interests, not necessarily yours. Look surprised when Microsoft "recommends" you dump your perfectly usable computer for Windows 11.
3. Microsoft will be fine no matter what you choose to do on your machine.
4. Look a little deeper into LTSC IoT. It's Windows 10 with security updates and most things work fine. Yes there are trade-offs. For me, who never installs aggressive ring-zero anti cheat software for games, it was a no brainer. I also don't care about Xbox or the Microsoft Store. Having these things stripped from my Windows install is a feature, not a nuisance.
Microsoft is wrong to do this. There is LOT of capable hardware out there which can provide value. The TPM 2 limitation is completely artificial, as you can install Windows 11 anyway with a quick hack and it will work fine.
We have an HTPC with hardware from 2008 (mainly the board and CPU) which runs absolutely great. It still manages to surprise us with how capable it is. We are going to use this thing until it absolutely dies with no hope for recovery.
Apple seems to get a lot of praise for long term software support and the latest iOS doesnt support hardware released before 2019 as far as I can tell.
In fact Linux is probably the only major exception to this, and if you need commercial support for 10+ year old hardware it costs $$$$
iPhone XR/XS that were released in 2018 indeed can't get the latest iOS (26.) The good thing is that security updates for the previous iOS versions (18, 16) usually roll for a year or more. Currently, iOS 15 (from 2021) is the oldest version still receiving updates (15.8.5 was released a month ago) and the oldest devices capable of running that are from 2015.
Not aware of this, and actually, it seems like the contrary. Apple repeatedly deprecates stuff and makes users and developers dance around a rather quick, and very unreliable software deprecation cycle which makes it terrible to do anything long term on Mac.
Plenty of examples for this. Just ask around.
A 2017 MacBook Air can only run MacOS 12 - which was unsupported last year, giving a total of seven years of support. Yes, you can run OpenCore Patcher if you want to stretch the definition of support.
Probably more relevant here is MacOS 26 doesn't support anything before 2019 either. And it's not because they dropped x86 support entirely, it still supports some Intel Macs. Just not many.
The 8700 that replaced it is also from 2017. The 7th gen was extremely short lived for whatever reason
As for myself, I didn't bother with Windows 11. Converted all my daily drivers who were still on Windows to Linux. On one machine I have a dual boot Windows 10 LTSC IoT just in case. This gives me 7 more years.
Hardware-wise a TPM is now mandatory, which means a lot of systems that could otherwise run it fine are locked out.
The move to TPM 2.0 made a lot of TPM-capable systems incompatible. Arbitrary CPU support also didn't help; there is no clear reason why some CPUs made the cut and others didn't. Seems like a mix between fTPM 2.0 support and SPECTRE hardware mitigations, but MS never really clarified what their actual reasons were.
Win10 came with the computer that I chose for home use because it was a cheap refurb with a touch screen. It's fine. My workplace has switched to Win11 and it seems fine. I'm practically ambivalent about the "platform wars" because I rarely interact with the OS.
I've read about issues such as: Growing amounts of telemetry. Requiring people to have a Microsoft account. Switching to subscription models for software.
But I think a serious issue is that there's a lot of hardware out there, that's not technically obsolete, but won't run Win11 for whatever reason. Being forced to upgrade your hardware opens up your choices, and now this brings Apple into play. I'm in this boat, though for me, Ubuntu may also be in play. If I have to give up my touch screen, my options open up a lot.
At my workplace, we were a Dell-only shop for many years, but now we offer either Dell or Apple. Even if only a percentage of people decide it's time to try Apple, that's still a lot of computers. Maybe something has changed that made it easier for corporate IT (at a F500 multinational) to support both platforms. My cube mate has a MacBook.
Without a cloud account, you are stuck on the OOBE setup screen.
Being forced to use 11 at work convinced me to finally move to Linux at home. And for context, I was an early adopter of Vista, and remain a defender of it.
Example: "You should make a Microsoft account!" -> "You really need to make a Microsoft account." -> "Here's a full-screen Window begging you to make a Microsoft account, with a tiny skip button." -> "Here's a full-screen Window demanding you to make a Microsoft account, and if you want to skip it, you need to reboot and do this without a network connection." -> "You're going to make a Microsoft account if you want to use your computer. Just do it, asshole. (command line workaround)" -> "OK, fuckface, we tried the easy way, now we punish you with the hard way. Make that fucking Microsoft account whether you want it or not. I'm not fucking around anymore. YOU HAVE TO DO IT."
You can see this progression with basically all of their unwanted features.
It's a shame, really. Windows 11 has a whole bunch of nice-to-haves for development and gaming. They have one side making consistent improvements while the other makes the ecosystem as bad as they can.
The privacy invasions grew in Window 11 and the advertisement of Microsoft products increased quite a bit. The start menu now works better (opens every time you press the button, which I had issues with on Windows 10). Many people didn't get a choice to upgrade, which also pissed people off.
For the more technical-minded, the mandatory Microsoft account also pissed a lot of people off. Haven't heard any complaints about that from people who can't name a preferred Linux distro, though.
I don't particularly like the UI redesign but that's low on the list of problems. And I haven't been blasted with ads and AI things as other people report but maybe that stuff is all in the Home edition.
there will probably be ATMs running LTSC even past 2038
Even if it was 2038, Win10 LTSC only supports hardware from the time it was originally released. That might or might not be a problem today, but it definitely will be problematic long before 2038.
W11 LTSC is 2034
even the commercial ESU for Windows 10 general release will go to October 2028
As for limits, I think it's only a limit of PCs per account, but I think you've got that limit already for licenses anyway.
And of course it won't last forever, sooner or later we'll be on square one again. I've personally already migrated my devices to Linux, except for a partition to play games that require anti-cheats, and I'm explaining to my family what their options are.
I, personally, would _like_ a new laptop and am lucky to be able to afford to buy at any retail price point but I cannot justify spending on Apple at this time. Maybe they’ll course correct but it seems unlikely to happen quickly enough for me. Johnny Ive ruined the product side of the company and IMO they may never recover as Tim Cook doesn’t have the kind of vision it would take to pivot to making consumer first products again.
Granted, most of them are pre-internet.
(the payment process itself will likely fail with random obscure errors after being prompted for your Apple password the 10th time though)