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Comment by Aerolfos | Hacker News Reader

> Refunds with no questions asked if you've played less than 2 hours of the game,

Weaker than standard physical store consumer protections (no playtime restriction on returns, obviously), and (much) weaker than GOGs refund: 1 month after purchase, no playtime restriction.

I believe they explicitly called out the equivalent for physical stores and european consumer protection in general when they announced the policy and lack of restrictions. Which is an indirect call out at Steam, which hasn't cared in the slightest and continues to have a worse policy.

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I don't know if this has changed since the last time I bought shrink-wrapped software at a retail store, but the return policy on games and software was always that they couldn't be returned once opened, at least at the bigbox retailers in the US. I'm sure stores occasionally made exceptions, but I very clearly remember buying a copy of Oblivion and not being able to install it due to minimum specs and the store not accepting a return. I just had to hang onto the copy until I built a new PC.

This is probably a US vs Europe difference in consumer protections though.

That would be illegal in the UK I think, since you have 1 year mandatory warranty against any faulty goods.

"I misread the minimum specifications" does not a faulty ware make.

Neither does "my PC runs a thousand different games but this one crashes" a faulty computer make.

Battlefield 6 won't run on your PC unless it has SecureBoot enabled. It's not included in "minimum specifications."

I don't see how that is relevant to Oblivion, nor how you'd buy Battlefield 6 plastic wrapped in a store.

Warrantyis thę same as return. If there is nothing wrong with goods, warranty does not apply. Return means return for any reason.

Standard policy is I think mostly the same, but in Europe there's been arguments that those policies don't follow the actual consumer protection laws, which is a whole thing that I don't think really resolved one way or another.

It varies with country but I believe a number of protection laws specify normal use/testing a product is allowed, so you can open boxes and test functionality (norwegian law does this for sure). Excepting videogames from this is arbitrary, the argument from consumer protection agencies goes.

I believe in practice a number of games did get refunded when threatened with formal complaints along these lines, but that's far from a guaranteed thing.

Anyway, GOG decided to go with the generous interpretation (and the one all kinds of electronic goods except games and CDs/DVDs have), which is nicer for everyone, really

> Weaker than standard physical store consumer protections (no playtime restriction on returns, obviously)

Depends on the jurisdiction. In Germany you have no right to returns on things bought in a physical store.

> Weaker than standard physical store consumer protections (no playtime restriction on returns, obviously)

Huh, we have different laws and physical stores. Here, no store will take your game back if you opened the box. Maybe that changed, but in the past any game opened couldn't be returned because you could have either copied the disk, or copied to key and activated it.

Key activation is actually a good point.

I believe there were some pushes to get rid of opened box = no refund policies as being against standard 14-day returns in Norway, because the law explicitly says the consumer may (paraphrase) "reasonably test the use of a product" which allows you to open the box on other goods. But keys being consumable puts them in another category of goods (like food, which obviously can't be returned after "use"), so that doesn't apply.

2 hour return policy can already be a problem for a very short indie game. There was one which you could beat in 2 hours and refund and people did that.

GOG gets away with their policy because only people who believe in GOG ideallogy go there, and they won't refund a good game. If steam did that, abuse would skyrocket.

And in my country, unless explicitly stated otherwise, most physical goods can't be returned if they are used.

In some sense, GOGs entire existence is testing the hypothesis that it's impossible to run a consumer friendly digital store due to abuse.

If you took the common sense publisher view then no DRM = everything you make is instantly pirated and the whole store fails instantly. But GOG is a viable storefront, so that's demonstrably wrong.

The evidence is no better for Steam's refund policy than it was for DRM being necessary.

> But GOG is a viable storefront, so that's demonstrably wrong.

How many developers can make a living based off of GOG revenue alone vs Steam revenue alone?

GOGs refund is 1 month? Man I can clear DMC5 twice in one week then do a refund in that case.

You can also share games you purchased at GoG with all your friends. They do give you a lot of freedom.

It’s maybe the only really “good” actor in that industry left so I try to support them as much as possible

sadly they don't do regional pricing at all, so steam price is almost half the GoG and maybe even lower. But yeah if you can buy GoG, it's better due to no DRM

Sure steam is cheaper but that’s how they get you. We shouldn’t always go for the cheapest alternative and then whine when things go to shit

It’s far easier to just pirate (nearly all?) GOG games. Like there are torrents with big chunks of their entire store on them, and I’ve seen allusions to an unofficial “store” that just has all(?) their games on it for free. I doubt many people are abusing the refund system because going through those steps is more work than piracy.

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