Hacker News Reader

Comment by etskinner | Hacker News Reader

> Job losses could shave 30 cents off each item purchased by 2027.

I know this is just a start (and just enough to make the ROI worth it, probably), but it sounds particularly dystopian / late stage capitalism

View on HN

its also not going to happen. They arent going to shave off 30 cents because thats just not how it works, they'll make 30 cents more an item. Realistically, they'll charge even more and make even more on top of that.

but what does this have to do with capitalism? (apart from it being the scapegoat for all problems as per the current narrative). it's a cute phrase but I'd suggest 'late stage fiat' is more apt. I think this as with hard money instead, there's no need to perpetually eek a living, as the rising tide lifts all boats.

does it? seems like that these times the tides are rising only the bigger yachts and sinking the smaller boats

> seems like that these times the tides are rising only the bigger yachts and sinking the smaller boats

my point exactly.

hence last stage fiat. capitalism / [insert false dichotomy here] is a distraction.

> but what does this have to do with capitalism?

if only the capitalists own the robots, only the capitalists will benefit.

in a fiat world yes. in a world using money (not the fake fiat we have now), everyone else gets wealthier at the same time. that's what was taken from us. 'late stage capitalism' etc is just mindless division to distract people that are getting robbed.

i don't understand what you mean. capitalism existed before fiat currency. carnegie, morgan, rockefeller etc all made their fortunes by owning the means of production long before the gold standard was abolished in the united states. we were able to share their wealth via heavy progressive taxation, not because we didn't use fiat currency.

In the battle of capital vs labor, the capital wins when the laborers are not needed.

Doesn't China print a huge amount of money and have their currency tied to fiat currency, making theirs a fiat economy as well?

Someone here wrote they are pro free markets, but anti-capitalism/a capitalist class.

The thought being markets are efficient and liberating mechanisms for coordinating production and exchange but concentrated ownership of capital turns those same mechanisms into systems of control and extraction.

A key feature of “late stage capitalism” is that people move up the value chain, stop doing menial labor, and find better, more fulfilling jobs that don’t involve putting boxes in other boxes.

s/feature/illusory promise/

You can't move up without training. Training costs money and time which is something most people lack

Or aptitude. Not everyone is suited to work like electrical engineering to build the robots, or software development to make the software for them. Computer Science and Engineering is hard, and there’s a lot of folk that just won’t excel in that type of work.

We’re going to hit a point where we need UBI, and as a society, be OK changing our views on existence and dispel the notion that one has to “earn” their right to exist within society, because the only other alternative is the top few percentage are the only ones that benefit from the automation while everyone else starves to death.

In the past, this has meant that people who had manufacturing jobs (i.e. producing something tangible that they could conceivably be proud of doing right) were moved to service jobs like call center operators, delivery workers, Uber drivers, Amazon warehouse workers etc. etc. Not really a step up, I would say. And in the foreseeable future all these jobs (and also some better qualified ones) will be replaced by robots - probably the most dangerous and least fulfilling of them, like delivery workers, will be replaced last. Yay, progress!

Have you ever worked in a manufacturing job? Surveys have shown that people are much happier, on average, with their service jobs than they were in the past when manufacturing was more prevalent. That's because factory work involves doing dangerous, repetitive, mind numbing work in a loud, often overcrowded, odorous, and hot space. It's a meme that everyone wants to bring back manufacturing jobs, but no one actually wants to work in manufacturing. People want cozy office jobs.

"move up the value chain" assuming:

1. the next level opportunity exist

2. proper training (we all know that's pipe dream)

3. fits what these folks are looking for (for some, repetitive jobs == less stress than "creative" jobs).

but what about glut of workers == depress wage?

Reply on news.ycombinator.com