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Comment by CaptainOfCoit | Hacker News Reader

> Tesla needs to offer all HW3 owners a $5,000 loyalty discount, that goes on top of all other incentive program, when upgrading to a new car.

Is it just me, or does that seem backwards? If I purchased something with a specific feature, or promised future feature, and 5 years later it's still nowhere to be seen, I don't want a coupon for "my next purchase", why would I buy from the same place after they already lied to me before? The only acceptable solution would be to get back the extra money spent for that feature.

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The only sane offer would be to give me my money back. They know how much I gave them, now give it back since you didn't deliver and I no longer have the car. Isn't it enough that I gave them an interest-free loan for all those years?

They should obviously pay interest, too.

In an ideal world. Instead, I expect a class action settlement and me receiving a check for $25.

Nowhere to be seen if your head is in the sand. There are robotaxi pilot programs running in two cities, FSD 14 is actively rolling out to customers, and my car drove me to work this morning on v13. I don't see any lies

So you're saying the submission article is just straight up lies, or why the difference in experience?

Have they taken the "safety operator" out of the "robotaxis" yet?

Here's a handy compilation of Musk's self driving broken promises https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_predictions_for_autono...

And no Tesla has EVER driven without a driver with Tesla assuming liability for crashes. And I don't think they ever will.

Waymo assumes liability for crashes. Tesla doesn't. That should tell you all you need to know.

I'm pretty sure Tesla assumed liability when they had a car deliver itself to a customer in Austin this year.[1] Also Tesla is an insurance provider in many states, and where it's legal to do so (Arizona & Texas currently), they offer discounts for using FSD more.[2] So they seem to be putting their money where their mouth is.

Are you predicting that Tesla will never get rid of their safety drivers in their Robotaxis? Because as soon as that happens, won't your prediction be incorrect? That seems unlikely to me. Tesla is definitely behind Waymo when it comes to self-driving capabilities, but it seems like they'll eventually succeed.

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU16hXSSGKs

2. https://www.tesla.com/support/insurance/fsd-discount

Did they though? That was clearly a one off stunt to pump the stock.

"Are you predicting that Tesla will never get rid of their safety drivers in their Robotaxis?"

That is exactly what I'm saying. Because vision only non-redundant technology stack is never going to be reliable enough.

"Because as soon as that happens, won't your prediction be incorrect? "

yes, that is how predictions work.

You said "And no Tesla has EVER driven without a driver with Tesla assuming liability for crashes." and I gave a counterexample. I figured you wouldn't count the Austin robotaxi rollout, since there is a safety monitor in those vehicles, just not always in the driver's seat. I also assumed you meant "on public roads", since Teslas already drive themselves from factories to staging/shipping areas, but that's on private roads. And their cybercab demo last year lacked safety drivers, but again that was on private roads.

Are you willing to stake money on your prediction? I'll bet you any amount up to $1k that Tesla will have self-driving vehicles on public roads without a safety monitor in the car by the end of 2026. This could be in the form of their robotaxi service or FSD unsupervised (since many Teslas are insured by Tesla).

> why would I buy from the same place after they already lied to me before?

You are smarter than the repeat Tesla buyer.

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