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Comment by sylens | Hacker News Reader

I have a 2018 iPad Pro that is due for replacement but I cannot bring myself to spend the money on a new iPad. No matter how much I think I'll use it, it becomes a web browsing and YouTube machine on the couch. It's a shame because I think the hardware design is quite good, but the OS itself is so limiting, even with the "improvements" iPadOS 26 introduced.

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This may be a controversial statement, but: you don't have to replace things that you're not using.

That’s the decision I’ve made here, I was merely using the framing as a way to talk about how my view on the iPad has changed in the intervening years

But won't someone think of the shareholder value?

I can understand the reasoning behind - maybe new revision is more usable and make them use it more.

I use my 2018 iPad Pro every day, though. Ironically, that's the reason why I'm not replacing it - it works just fine.

Every iPad I've bought was going to be "the one where I find a use case that uses it" but every time it ends up being a YouTube machine.

Same but just entertainment device. I still don't understand where the iPad Pro makes sense.

It's great for image retouching and illustration, especially on the go.

It's also very handy for running VSTs (well, AUs really) and jamming with keyboards or guitars (with something like iRig)

iOS doesn't even make for a very good YouTube machine, you need uBlock Origin for that.

Side comment: when I watch YouTube content on my iPad, I normally use the Brave browser instead of the app. It has a built-in ad blocker that works well on YouTube.

Psst, you can get uBlock Origin (lite) for Safari now. Works pretty well.

i don't think it works with youtube. i am too lazy to sideload personally, so I just use an albanian vpn in mullvad.

Got a vpn subscription? Try exiting in albania, no ads.

You could also subscribe to YouTube Premium. It pays creators better than ads do (versus an ad blocker, which pays them nothing), and it includes YouTube Music, so you can ditch Spotify.

Garageband and Books for me.. iPad 1 or 2 would suffice..

I bought one just to run Loopy Pro. It has never run anything but the app store, the system settings, and Loopy Pro.

But I had the use case before I bought it. If not for that, I wouldn't own one.

Loopy Pro is as compelling an argument for buying one on the audio side as Procreate is on the graphics side.

Try Drambo, haha

Looks super interesting. I may give it a shot sometime. But I'm mostly interested in recording loops generated and sound-designed outside the box.

Yeah, it's a different kind of… instrument.

I literally use mine for the Books app and to play chess.

I'm still on an older 12.9" Pro but will definitely upgrade at some point—and may not bother with another (personal—work-supplied is another matter) MacBook when my M1 starts to get long in the tooth in a couple years, now that Preview is available on iPads.

It beats the hell out of either laptops or phones, for me, for these tasks:

- Music. Excellent as a sheet music display; can record and edit midi quite well; play tutorial videos; act as a tuner, tone generator, or metronome (my phone beats it on that front due to portability, but still, if I already have the iPad out on the stand...); plenty good enough at audio recording and editing for my extremely-amateur purposes, plus its ability to play loops and beats and such.

- Reading. It's especially amazing for comic books (in landscape mode a 12.9 incher is almost the same size as an open comic book! You can read two-page side-by-side on it, no problem) and PDFs. I prefer iPad mini sized devices for prose books in ordinary ebook formats, but the 12.9" pro is damn near perfect for those two things. Laptops and desktop computers also work for comic books and PDFs, but are a pretty big downgrade, UX-wise.

- Drawing. Obviously.

- Long-form writing. Laptops work great for this too, of course, but you still need a separate keyboard if you want decent ergonomics. iPad doesn't have an attached keyboard taking up space that I could instead use for a separate keyboard.

It's also just as good as a laptop (to me) as a remote SSH terminal, VNC terminal, video/music player, web browser et c. I can't really think of much I do on my (personal! Not work-supplied) laptop that I can't do just as well on an iPad, maybe supplemented by a headless RPi hanging off my router, or a cheap VM rental (or just the Linux server in an old desktop workstation tower that I already have anyway).

I have an iPad Mini. I got it mainly for studying and reading. However, it also has become great for being an instrumentalist. I can toss it in my bag, setup it up with the folding case for sheet music, tuning, and everything else. It saves me from having to carry my sheet music books, tuner, and other bits around.

I have an M1 12.9" iPP -- I find it's almost useless for reading because it weighs so much. I ended up buying a $ 90 Android 11" tablet which has a 'good enough' screen for reading. (Obv also does email, photos, AI, etc).

If I could develop on the iPP, FOR the iPP --- build professional-quality apps on the iPP --- I would be happier. The Logitech detachable kbd is remarkably good, I have no complaints typing on it all day. iOS is a straightjacket.

> - Long-form writing. Laptops work great for this too, of course, but you still need a separate keyboard if you want decent ergonomics. iPad doesn't have an attached keyboard taking up space that I could instead use for a separate keyboard.

The screen is still small. Also, for technical writing, I think a lot of software is missing. There are a lot of small tools that technical writers use to do diagrams, illustrations. Also, long-form writing can be in different file formats. I think support for LaTeX and typst is very limited.

What’s wrong with the iPad being a pure consumption device? It’s really great at this. Granted, you don’t need an iPad Pro for consumption, but you could always go for an iPad or iPad Air, no?

I have a 2017 iPad Pro and once the battery finally dies will replace it with a non-Pro iPad.

I agree with this sentiment, but if you are using it primarily as a consumption device, the OLED screen is probably worth sticking with the Pro line.

This. I've started thinking of it like this — the iPad, in my case, has an absolutely abysmal cost to usage ratio. On the far other end of the spectrum (and in a similar form factor if you squint) is probably my Kindle.

That being said, _some_ people I know consistently seem to get lots of work use out of their tablets, and I can't quite put my finger on where we differ.

Note taking and Reading are my primary use cases.

Goes without saying YMMV but it works for me.

I had to hand down my iPad Pro 3rd Gen (the one with A12x Bionic chip) to my daughter for her school use.

I got myself a 13" iPad Air (M2 chip) this time and Apple Pencil Pro (from Apple Refurbished store). The larger screen size isn't that much of a botheration as I thought it might be. On the flip side, the screen size is a lot closer to an A4 sheet and writing on it feels much better. I use Paperlike screen cover and pencil tips too.

I don't have Netflix or YouTube installed on it.

I only use it for Apple Books, Kindle, Notes and now Preview app is there as well.

I might this time even use it as Sidekick and remote access IDEs running on my MBP but not sure if I want to do that yet on the iPad.

You could consider getting into drawing/design. They compete incredibly well against the display-based tablets made by wacom, especially these days where you can also do 3d and animation in procreate.

If I was starting this as a hobby, my first step would not be to spend several hundred dollars on a tablet and pen. I'd probably grab some sketchbooks and pencils first for <$50 and see if it sticks for more than a month.

I mean yes, but if you have an incredibly impressive machine compared to SOTA 10 years ago just lying around, I'd have fun with that too. :) Plus you can use it for more "practical" stuff like logo design or editing or even just note taking... I wanted to provide some examples of not just youtube machine.

But then they wouldn't have anything to moan about on HN.

If you aren't into drawing, what about music? You can download GarageBand for free and it's pretty great once you figure it out.

Or if you aren't a music person, are you into making movies? Final Cut Pro does have a subscription, but it's only $5 / month and the subscription is easy to start and stop. If your needs are simple, the free iMovie is pretty good.

Or maybe video isn't your thing. Are you a writer or poet? There are a lot of great choices for writing apps and the battery life of the iPad means you can work away from your desk all day.

Or if you like writing software, Swift Playground is fun. I found this to be a great resource:

https://github.com/uraimo/Awesome-Swift-Playgrounds

If you are into photography, Affinity Photo is fun. It doesn't have the AI features that Photoshop has, but for amateurs, it can get you pretty far. Plug in an external drive to your iPad and you can use it with a huge photo library.

All of this is cool...but you can do them all on a laptop and you'll probably have a better time.

And those cheap/free things are only available after dropping $1000 on a new iPad

The person I replied to already has the iPad.

As for having a better time on the laptop, YMMV. My iPad is my most used computer by a mile.

Drawing with undo, layers, gradients, transparency, and infinite brushes is very different from sketching on paper. I don't think a sketchbook is anything like it.

Just borrow someone else's underused ipad if you want to give it a try.

Gear Acquisition Syndrome. It's interesting how many people try to pick up new hobbies to justify large purchases when it rarely works out that way

“I really want that large truck that I don’t need. Maybe I should start a landscaping business!”

It'd be better if we could just all be honest with ourselves.

If you have the disposal income, no need to justify it outside of "it's a cool gadget and I want to play with it."

I did this. I bought a Pencil Pro. I bought Procreate. Doodled for a couple weeks.

Now it's just a YouTube device.

Just buy a sketch book and some colored pens and pencils.

Can you use your iPad as a Wacom quality comparable table for input on your macbook?

I've produced two albums and done quite a few remixes on mine. Trying hard not to sound like a dick here, but if you pick up an iPad and all you can think to do with it is watch YouTube it seems weird to blame the iPad for that.

Can you share your stack? What hardware are you using if you're doing vocal/instrument inputs?

I don't do vocals, so hardware is a TD-3, a Roland T-8, TB-03, Arturia MiniFuse 4 as the audio interface, Arturia MiniLab keyboard / controller and various Intech controllers (highly recommended). I believe the MiniFuse would do your vocal inputs pretty well.

Even with all that though, I do 99% of it directly in Logic on the iPad, sometimes 100%.

Point noted. For me, I find too much friction and distraction using the iPad for creative. Sure, I'll do something in a pinch, but there's just something about it where I can't focus on non-consumption activities.

I'm not sure what it is about the iPad -- maybe the physical ergonomics? It's kinda hard to position comfortably for focus.

I specifically use my iPad for the music because it's not the MBP I spend all day on for work. I'm sure there's music stuff that would be much easier to achieve on the laptop than the iPad, but the second I open my laptop I'm basically on-call and the distractions too great - the separation helps.

Do agree with the ergonomics point though - it can be hard to spend a lot of time actually working on it.

Sounds like you don't have a tablet specific use case though, you just want to use it as a glorified laptop, so why not just use a laptop?

A tablet specific use case would be as portable writing machine on the go, for illustration, for audio units, or something like that, all the way to flight maps for recreational flying.

It’s the standard for musical notes

I use my iPad solely for just artwork at this point. I don't respect the App Store and needing to pay subscriptions for things you can get for free on a computer. That, and having to rely on web apps

the walled-garden completely destroys the ipads potential as a productivity device.

How? I've never understood this. There's tons of good software for creating things in the App Store.

There's tons of good software for creating things in the App Store.

But none yet that will automate the essential task of posting the phrase "walled garden" on social media.

There could also be an in-app purchase which uses AI to grind ancient axes about butterfly keyboards and Snow Leopard.

or a terminal or a decent ide or an ability to script anything. lots of companies rely on custom bespoke software made by an employee who got fed up by something, basically no possibility of doing that on an ipad, etc etc.

but sure, just call me an NPC, you’re so unique and good at noticing patterns and not rude

or a terminal

Here ya go: https://panic.com/prompt/

There have been terminal programs for the iPad since at least 2017, when I started using the one above.

As for "custom bespoke software," why would you try to run that on an iPad in the first place? My company has plenty custom in-house programs, but I don't complain that they won't run on a toaster, or a Commodore 64, or a Cray. That's like saying you won't buy a speedboat because it can't carry all the iron ore that your company's dump truck can haul. It just makes no sense.

Prompt lets you log into some other computer and run programs there, not run programs on your iPad. Hell, I used it to fix a production bug from my phone in like 2013.

> Hell, I used it to fix a production bug from my phone in like 2013

LOL, there are tens of us, I'm sure!

Fixed a production bug on my phone from the passenger seat of a friend's car, somewhere around 2013 or 2014.

I did the same, but with iSSH (which I still mourn).

It's wild to me the levels someone will go to defend a corporation's right to lock away the ability to install anything the user wants.

In a perfect (from their pov) world Apple would prefer the internet didn't even exist, that way they could put up a walled garden AppleNet and take 30% of everything there too.

I chose your comment to respond to but there's a handful of you going to war in the comments, it's just wild to me.

You can't know what is missing because it hasn't even been invented - because of those limitations.

Devices usually have killer apps that determine their success. The iPad is conspicuously lacking one.

I want to be able to write code in an editor or IDE and push that to source control from the device.

You can do that. As long as you're okay with VSCode or a very specific build Vim: https://docs.blink.sh/advanced/code

Please don't move the goal post to "I also want to compile and run code" because I got nothing for that. I just ssh to my home server and use my normal shell and neovim there.

A lot of extensions don’t work well with that. Like the UI is all messed up.

i don’t find the code-server experience particularly good. this “functionality” in blink is basically just safari

also no local git

What do you mean, no local git? There is local git...it's just another app. I know it sucks. Also pretty sure code-server has working git functionality?

I don't find that experience good either, but I mostly write rust, so not having rust tool chain and its component is a dealbreaker for me.

I'm just saying you can write code and commit from iPad directly. I'd rather get the ability to use jetbrains IDEs via their remote client, but I don't think it will ever happen.

My relaxing on the couch creative activity is writing code in compiled languages, running a server, and seeing it go in the browser. This is impossible on an iPad.

There are many other creative workflows possible on an iPad, but I'm not really interested in getting good at those when I have the one that I'm already working on, you know?

And I own exclusively Apple hardware; I'm not some contrarian anti Apple fanboy, I promise.

Far less open-source software for it, no compilers, emulators banned until recently.

And as for paid software, almost everything a bloodys subscription even for things like note-taking apps, that or loaded with ads and microtransactions.

And anything touch-centric encourages dumbed-down limited-functionality software to begin with. More advanced software requires more precise input devices.

iPad has the power to play a majority of Steam games, Windows apps, linux distributions, etc.. but due to it being so locked down, it's essentially a youtube machine. iPad is a joke.

The A10X processor in my 2017 iPad Pro has always felt ridiculously overpowered for a couch machine. Recently it had gotten sluggish, hot, hung for times and lost battery quite quickly and I thought its time had finally come.. but no, after resetting the OS, it's as fast as ever. So hopefully it'll last me til Apple finally gives the iPad Air a 120Hz display.

I use it professionally as an art machine. It's excellent for concept art and drawing in general.

I have a M1 iPad Pro and I'm open to doing a trade-in for a new M5 iPad Pro: however the problem is the accessories. I rely on the Magic Keyboard and Apple Pencil and they would have to be repurchased since they are not compatable, which upps the total price too much.

I follow largely the same path. I basically find that mine ends up used for only two things:

1. Reading technical papers where I use the pen to make notes

2. Sketching household projects (a few of the apps are very nice for this).

Outside of that, I simply want a real, physical keyboard most of the time.

I love my Kindle, but I have never been able to use my iPad for reading.

I got HumbleBundle with a bunch of Pathfinder 2e PDFs cheap but I'm still tempted to buy the physical copies.

I really like using my iPad with the Nuphy air 75 Bluetooth mechanical low profile keyboard, physical keyboard is a solved problem.

This is why I replaced my Samsung Galaxy Book 12 w/ a Galaxy Book 3 Pro 360.

I'd give my interest in Hell for there to be a tablet Mac w/ a Wacom stylus --- as it is, I'm seriously considering a Mac Mini and Wacom Movink 14 and a 3D printed shell.... (but first, I'm going to try out an rPi 5 w/ Wacom One 13 Gen 2 w/ touch).

Agreed. I am forcing myself to start using my iPad Air more and more but it generally just collects dust. The 10Hz refresh rate has made me want to look at getting a proper one with a fast display - but then I remind myself that it will also probably collect dust most of the time.

As a synth, the iPad is a GODSENT !

> it becomes a web browsing and YouTube machine on the couch

My 4090 and m4 iPad Pro share this fate, with some occasional gaming.

I rented pcs from shadow game, cuz i know if i build a pc w gpu it’d face the same fate

What else does the OS need to do? There are real windows and real background processing.

It's a useful device if you're an artist, if you're a developer the best thing you can do with it is buy the cellular model and use it as a very thin VNC client

Yes and developers are a very small slice of the computer using consumers.

There's a whole spectrum of use cases between artist and software developer. Honestly most people that I see at work just use Office software, web browser, and Teams.

Office is a great use for a $350 regular iPad. Honestly the same one I'd recommend to developers, or worst case an $800 iPad Air for the 13" screen size.

The $1000+ iPad Pro isn't helpful for any of that.

That's true, and I would have gone for a 13" iPad Air when they were introduced, but ultimately went for the iPad Pro because I liked the OLED and 120Hz.

None of that requires the power of an M5.

Neither does developing software given we've all been doing it for ages despite the M5 not existing, still nice to have though.

Plus you get more longevity, I'll keep my M4 iPad Pro until doesn't get OS updates anymore. I still feel no impetus to update my M1 laptop despite it being 4 years old.

> buy the cellular model

You probably have your iPhone with you every time you got an iPad with you, so just use that.

Except the iPad battery will last longer and will not kill your phone while you do stuff

>inb4 buy a battery bank

Hmm, I will be honest, I was either always close to a power outlet or it lasted long enough for me. You only need to tether if there is no Wi-Fi.

I have a 20000mAh with me when I intend to work remotely though. Either way cheaper than paying for another plan for iPad and buying a more expensive iPad.

With T-Mobile, I have unlimited data on my iPhone and iPad. But limited tethering data. My iPad data plan is $20-$25 a month.

Normal-ish files and filesystem access, and dev types could use access to the terminal (on the system)

What’s not “normal” about the files and why do most people need access to the file system and not a method to share files across apps that’s already available?

> a method to share files across apps that’s already available

like a filesystem ?

like a filesystem ?

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/files/id1232058109

You didn’t answer the question, what feature can’t you do with the Files App and the ability to save and load files across applications?

How do you know you have the right application to open the file? I have tried at least a dozen apps to open *.stl files... some work, most don't. Some have features I need and don't work opening files. Some are sensitive to stl's that require repair and stop working... and I could go on and on for different file types. The point is; sharing isn't "guaranteed" to work across apps and is generally far, far from "it just works". You have almost zero control over the actual files because there might not be a way to save different formats from the app you are using, or the files app doesn't recognize the extension, or you can't find the folder for the other app, or it doesn't have a user accessible folder, or it will not load files from the "files app"... or <insert 50000 more "what if's here>. The whole things just sucks so, so bad.

And how do you know a Word file will work seamlessly across other word processors on a computer that are suppose to read Word files or export to Word? What modern productivity software doesn’t support using the Files app? It has been around for well over a decade.

- Rename, organize, and delete files that span across a number of different applications

- Convert one file type to another

- Choose which application to use to open a file

- Inspect the details of files in a consistent manner

On your computer, do you inspect the details of a file using Explorer? On the Mac do you do that with the Finder. Or do you actually open the file with an application?

Do you expect to use Windows explorer or the Finder to “convert file types”?

Using iOS 26 on my phone, I held down a file and there is an “Open With” option that gave me a choice of how to open the file.

Across applications? Applications these days save files using the File dialog, they may by default store them in a folder accesible by Files. Yes I know some apps still store their data in their own sandbox. But that’s not the case generally for standard productivity apps.

If I need to know the details of a file (eg file extension, size, location, etc) I generally use the Finder for that, yes.

I do frequently convert file types through the Finder. Bulk converting a bunch of photos, for example, is easier to do through a file browser. Even if I were opening a different app to do that, a standard file browser would be the interface I would want for that.

It’s great if more iOS applications are storing files as regular files on the filesystem now. Apple should have encouraged that in the first place. There was some goofy notion they were going to get rid of the idea of “files” with iOS, but that’s not actually a good idea.

> If I need to know the details of a file (eg file extension, size, location, etc) I generally use the Finder for that, yes.

As you would with the Files app…

> Even if I were opening a different app to do that, a standard file browser would be the interface I would want for that

Which iPad apps that allow you to work with files don’t use the standard files app interface when you open and save a file? How else would they work?

> It’s great if more iOS applications are storing files as regular files on the filesystem now. Apple should have encouraged that in the first place.

The Files app and the APIs were introduced in 2017.

Do you use "files"? Its garbargio on steroids. You can't just open a <insert about 100 file extensions here> file from the files app. Moving files around is cumbersome at best and downright infuriating most of the time. The "sandbox" nature of iOS is simply not intuitive enough to know how things will react when you move and try to open a file in another app. It just sucks so bad.

Furthermore, "sharing" is broken. Does it copy the file? Does it move the file? Am I duplicating this 200mb pdf when I move it to books? How the ____ do I know? There is a dearth of information and I imagine most people, like myself, give up and use it to read before bed or watch a few videos on the couch. I am never going to by another iPad until the OS is useful beyond drawing, creating music or reading.

You can’t open random file extensions on a computer either unless you have an application that understand the format.

Moving files around works just like on Windows and Macs - cut and paste.

And it has the same semantics as Windows and Macs - if I drag a file from one place to another on the same drive - it moves it. If I drag it to another storage location - ie another hard drive on a computer or another storage provider in Files - iCloud, Google Drive, etc it copies it.

It never ceases to amaze me that when computer “experts” criticize people for not wanting to learn how things work - do the same.

It would be great if they allowed JIT compilation in apps. This would allow things like Dolphin (Wii, Gamecube emulator) to run.

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