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Comment by Someone1234 | Hacker News Reader

You're starting out with an assumption, that this is an OTA update for the infotainment system, and then conclude this incident shouldn't be possible. The problem is the assumption.

This is a OTA vehicle update. It has the ability to update the infotainment, ECU, ECM, TCM, and BCM. Multiple manufacturers have been able to release recalls that fix major vehicle defects (safety, reliability, and performance). That wouldn't be possible without OTA updates that update core vehicle computer systems.

Unclear where this idea that OTA = Infotainment came from. I'd go as far as to say that most manufacturers can do this in 2025.

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> Unclear where this idea that OTA = Infotainment came from.

Because to some people, the idea of an OTA update being allowed to change mission critical parts of a machine automatically without a solid rollback system is absurd, and the best way to do that is to never do OTA updates of mission critical parts at all.

... but then you'd have to pay mechanics at dealerships to do it. Middleman cutting.

Rollback is getting extinct for security reasons. When you will screw up, you need to do a new release. Hopefully screwed part is still talking.

This is why OTA updates should simply be illegal/considered negligent engineering. If you want a convenient update, let people plug their phones or computers in via a USB port or something, or take it to a mechanic to do so. There shouldn't be security concerns with an appliance because it shouldn't be writable outside of an owner-intended maintenance mode, which should be impossible to activate wirelessly.

Wait until when fridge or TV will come with its own 5G chip and they will get bricked by remote update because it is time to buy a new one and there will be nothing you can do about it.

They don't have to do this. The cheap materials in the compressor or cheap capacitors used on the power supply board will just silently fall. And the cost to repair the problem, for the average person, will be slightly less than just buying a newer version of the crap that just broke.

My LG refrigerator recently stopped cooling. The error code suggested it was the defrost mechanism. It was more of a hassle of a repair than I wanted to take on so I found an authorized repair shop on the LG site and opted for their flat rate repair.

First trip the repairman replaced all of the defroster parts and sensors. It failed again with the same code 18 hours later. The second time he replaced the main board and at least one other part. It now works great and I have effectively a new fridge aside from the compressor for less than $400.

Compressor still has three years of warranty left and we expect to move before then. It can (hopefully) be someone else's problem.

I've got various IP subranges categorized by probability of having to block them in the router's firewall.

Main idea was locking updates to once or twice a year and resort to HomeAssistant.

It's at 33% execution stage so no idea on the feasibility.

> Rollback is getting extinct for security reasons.

Unusable devices are technically the most secure ones.

This should be made illegal. It’s a massive national security threat. Imagine on the eve of a war, instead of Jeep 4xes, it’s every recent Ford or Toyota or GM car, and instead of a software update that can be rolled back, it wipes the flash completely, or reprograms the ECU to damage the engine or disable the brakes on the highway or something else to cause accidents.

You assume that it will be a foreign enemy and not your own government bricking your car on the eve of revolution.

Just wait until you hear how much of our country's critical infrastructure is hooked up to the Internet. Traffic lights, water treatment plants, power plants.

The infotainment system can be the gateway to the rest of the vehicle network. It makes sense to attach a 4G modem to the display head to do mapping, hands free calling or emergency response, you may as well use it to download ECU updates too.

"I'd go as far as to say that most manufacturers can do this in 2025."

What does that have to do with OP's comment? And their point is still valid, and OTA update should not be able to brick a vehicle, regardless of the system receiving the update. And regardless if "they all can do it".

It has everything to do with it.

If OTA updates can update core vehicle computer systems, in ways that can correct safety, performance, and reliability problems then they can also brick that vehicle.

The manufacturer has the ability to push an update that reprograms computers that control how physical components behave in a vehicle. By the very nature of that; they can push good or evil updates.

Which is a reason the market for "dumb" cars is tightening up. Both my cars are "smart" and sometimes I wonder if I really own them. It bothers me that the maker can cause an update without my permission. (Yes, I know that's the world we've been living in for a while now.)

Any update can brick your device if done poorly. This device just happens to be a car.

You misunderstood what OP was saying. They claimed that an update to the infotainment system shouldn’t be able to brick the other systems in the car. The response points out the car’s OTA update subroutine has access to update every critical system in the car by design. It’s flawed logic to assume that OTA updates only affect the infotainment system.

> This is a OTA vehicle update. It has the ability to update the infotainment, ECU, ECM, TCM, and BCM. Multiple manufacturers have been able to release recalls that fix major vehicle defects (safety, reliability, and performance). *That wouldn't be possible without OTA updates that update core vehicle computer systems.*

Why wouldn't it be possible without OTA? It would just require someone to go somewhere, or do something, to get this installed.

While their assumption is incorrect, your conclusion is incorrect.

> Multiple manufacturers have been able to release recalls that fix major vehicle defects (safety, reliability, and performance). That wouldn't be possible without OTA updates that update core vehicle computer systems.

Just like dosage can be the difference between medicine and poison, OTA updates that can fix major safety, reliability, and performance problems can also cause them. The power is too great, and simply shouldn’t be allowed.

Why didn't the vehicle manufacturers robustly test their software systems on their vehicle's hardware before releasing the product to the public?

That would have an upfront guaranteed money/time cost, whereas avoiding that would at most result in some easily suppressible lawsuits or fines

The first paragraph of OP said

> The automaker pushed out a telematics update for the Uconnect infotainment system that evidently wasn't ready

most cars these days have GPS and return location and so on, why can't manufacturer run these updates only at night and when the car is parked at home? There should be no reason for any OTA update to happen while the vehicle is running (or on a trip etc.), downloading the OTA update, sure, but definitely not applying it. Also there should be a documented procedure to restore the previous in case an OTA update fails.

...because the very first paragraph of the article says it was an infotainment update? Thanks for the info, tho.

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