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Comment by creato | Hacker News Reader

MacOS is just as aggressive about turning on icloud as windows is with it's crap.

When Apple forces users to use an online account to access their local Mac, and disables their OS unless they turn on iCloud on their Mac -- then you can claim equivalence between them.

I can claim equivalence between them whenever I want. If both OSes adopt and enforce my biggest pet peeves, then no amount of eye candy or freebie features will fix my workflow.

Gatekeeping and second opinions don't really move the needle on where I stand with either company.

Showing up in a thread you haven’t even participated in and saying “I’ve already made my choice, quit giving me second opinions” is comically self-centered.

I literally just got my first Mac computer a few months ago. I tried to set it up as a local account with no online account. I could not.

Maybe it is possible and I just missed it. But either they don't allow it, or they have enough dark pattern bullshit to trick me, either way, it's the same as windows to me.

I'm pretty sure there was some keyboard shortcut to skip apple id login/creation during initial setup - not sure if that's still possible nowadays but I did used it once on my mbp few years ago

All you have to do is choose Set Up Later when presented with the screen for logging in with an Apple account.

Unless the way VMs install a distro is somehow fundamentally different from a new computer, then it's literally two clicks when installing Sonoma to use a local account when prompted (Setup Later and then click Skip). I just tested this.

the fact that you have to have an apple account to do all kinds of basic developer tasks (installing Xcode / Xcode command line tools, which are needed for lots of stuff last time I checked (a few years ago?)) is evidence that they suck also. But not nearly as bad as Microsoft who are actively scum from the moment you first turn the computer on.

"I need a free developer account to download Xcode" is certainly more user friendly than "I have to pay a subscription fee or pay up front to use Visual Studio".

Visual Studio is free for individuals though even for commercial purposes.

Visual studio community edition doesn't require an account, or even an email address. You can even download it through winget.

it still sucks, though, since there's no conceivable reason why it would be technically necessary to have an account. It's purely out of self-serving disrespect.

>disables their OS unless they turn on iCloud on their Mac -- then you can claim equivalence

What do you mean? Windows doesn't do that. Contrary to what the blog post claims, you can easily uninstall OneDrive (unlike iCloud).

And using Windows without an online account is possible, although the process is cumbersome enough to deter the average user.

Wasn't there a post the other day saying they'd moved it from "Ballache" to "All but impossible" to use a local account in 25H2?

I tried installing the latest 25H2 (stable iso) and nothing has changed so far. You can still use "bypassNRO" to set it up with a local account, offline. The planned changes will likely only affect the Home edition (Pro/Ent/Edu have more options). Even with Home edition there's a good chance you'll be able to make a local account with an answer file[1][2] or an unofficial tweak.

I think Windows will always be able to work without a MS account, because there are many critical (offline) deployments out there. But they'll probably make it difficult if you're using a "consumer" edition.

[1] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufactu...

[2] https://schneegans.de/windows/unattend-generator/

I’m sorry but you’re mistaken. It’s literally a normal skip button when first setting up the machine.

https://youtu.be/rE-hFyANr0Y

And unlike Windows it doesn’t turn itself on randomly or install additional apps like OneDrive, Teams, and Skype etc. with every OS update.

Yep, just setup a new MacBook Air and did not have to link an Apple account during setup.

I’ll concur with Apple being way more aggressive about this as well. icloud and if you try to use music on you iPhone with your collection of music Apple Music is always being pitched. Though the windows default start menu is something to behold these days (or widget panel..). I deleted Apple Maps from my phone because I never used it, but nothing would free up the 10 gigs of data it was storing…. Sigh.

Linux is good enough to be a daily driver for most things these days.

New phone came with no standalone music player only YouTube Music. But fair play to them you can click "local files only" at first launch and it keeps out of your way.

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