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Comment by elephanlemon | Hacker News Reader

If I ever buy a newer car, first thing I plan to do is find and remove or disconnect the modem.

My new Audi lets me turn off telemetry (at least it claims it does), but it complains every single time I turn the car on and makes me confirm two "no, I don't want to turn it back on" dialogs each time. It will also sometimes (I haven't figure out a pattern) tell my phone to auto-load the Audi app when I get in the car, for no useful reason, and then the app complains that it can't get the data it wants because I turned the data off. It's exceedingly obnoxious.

See if it has a dedicated modem fuse and isn't smart enough to nag when that is pulled.

Mazda claims that they will disable telemetry via the TCU, but when I asked the dealership about it they looked at me like I was speaking a different language. I couldn’t get anyone who knew anything about it and ended up leaving. It’s insane to me that I have to go through hoops to OPT OUT of this stuff, and I had no choice to even opt in.

You might need to dig around for the codes, but with tools like OBDeleven, I've found that on my Audis most of the things that are like that can be turned off. I've done all sorts of things, from adding a gauge sweep (even though it's digital, I like the effect) to turning off the seatbelt warning (my partner unbuckles when we get in the cul-de-sac) to customizing the keyfob (in summer I can open the sunroof with a long press of one of the buttons), etc.

A very very minor contribution to my choice to buy a VW ID.4 is that a number of people reported that pulling the modem's (user-accessible) fuse is fine, and just disables remote connectivity as you'd expect.

(I haven't actually done that, but I abstractly like the option being available)

This is why I bought a fiesta. There is nearly no "smart" stuff in it. Everything is still mostly analog and very user friendly. Plus the ST is one of the most fun cars you can drive.

RIP Fiesta model. Too amazing for your own good.

Believe me that there's at least two dozen computers doing their thing in your "mostly analog" Fiesta.

Consumers tend to heavily underestimate the point in time from which cars started absolutely relying on modern electronics.

Can confirm and they were shit. The transmission control module died on mine which means the car is dead. The TCM also died on everybody else's fiesta and fusion for a multi-year model span. I could not get a new one for 8 months while it sat in a garage.

The parent has a Fiesta ST which has never included a TCM.

The powershift dual clutch transmissions had many shoddy model years, but the manual Fiestas were pretty reliable. I drove my 2011 model until earlier this year without any major problems.

To me there's a difference between an offline ECU that just locally monitors sensors and controls components, and a connected modem and software updates. The former seems perfectly reasonable, and necessary for things like abs, which is obviously a good thing.

In my current car, if I disconnect the modem I lose the left front speaker and the microphone for the infotainment unit. Just noting for context, on this "I will just do XYZ theory."

Is it a Subaru? If so, I seem to remember a bypass harness you can buy.

You would be breaking the law in Europe.

Would you? I think that EU mandates a mobile connect for emergency services (eCall), but can you point out a legislation which forbits the owner to disable it in the vehicle they own?

Why would it be legal to drive a car where you have tempered with safety equipment?

Why would it be legal to drive a car where the manufacturer can remotely tamper with safety equipment while in motion

It is not. Obviously a car with that behavior would never have been homologated.

Because it's your car and your safety.

Unless vehicle tracking is intended as something other than a safety feature?

The EU-wide "911 eCall" system records your location at all times and has a cellular modem connected to government systems. It is illegal to disable this system. If you still do so, there are fines, and your insurance is no longer considered fully valid in case of an accident.

You asked for specific legislation. For the Netherlands and our "APK" system, the relevant rule is under "Geluidssignaalinrichtingen en eCall", article 5.2.71 of the APK handboek, issued by our Rijksdienst voor het Wegverkeer.

In the EU, automatic surveillance cameras on the side of the road enforce this APK system, so if you do disable the eCall system, you will fail your APK, and you will automatically receive a fine. Even if you don't leave your driveway, the government is working hard to keep you safe; government camera surveillance cars drive around constantly, scanning your license plates, cross-referencing surveillance images with other government databases to automatically issue fines if you step out of line.

I really don't think there's anything to worry about, though; to quote another comment of mine:

>Thankfully, we're safe. Car software is notoriously high quality and rarely hacked. All governments are fully trustworthy, especially around espionage and privacy, and have a perfect track record of never lying to the public.

>Look, the European Commission stated that it cannot be hacked; "hackers cannot take control of it", from ec.europa.eu. They built an unhackable device. I am not sure what you could be worried about. If the government tells you something cannot be hacked, then it cannot be hacked. Furthermore, none of the EU member states have been found using other infrastructure to violate privacy laws.

the earlier comment I made: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43958991

They'll have to find you first, which (without a cell modem and GPS) would be an undertaking. The cell antenna "accidentally" falling off or the cable developing a fatigue break after the connector might be easier to explain. A Faraday bag comes to mind, as well.

Immediately the check engine light would come on and it would automatically pull over if you tried to drive it, I'd guess.

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